Re: Wind Energy - some deep BS [OT]

Mike Hendrix wrote:
On 16 Jul 2009 06:35:01 -0500, nothermark <nothermark@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:05:20 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
<Technobarbarian-ztopzpam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Max" <thesameoldme@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:00a2cfec$0$12844$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Technobarbarian" <Technobarbarian-ztopzpam@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:0096c5b0$0$31997$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I found this while reading the news this afternoon:
http://www.latimes.com/business/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-us-hydrogen-power,0,1498698.story

On this site he lists his education as Morton College, which is a small two year institution. At most he could have gotten an Associate in Science or an Associate in Applied Science degree.

I found all of this too late to talk with anyone in Truth or Consequences NM. I'll make a couple of phone calls tomorrow. Wanna' bet that there is no actual "broken ground" there?

TB
T or C is usually a "pit stop" for us when we're heading south on I-25.
I'll be asking around.

The odds of this being legit are just about zero. Here's another version of the story:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g7-Wm6N0WYe1Ww6_ThryRvp3iPYAD99F77B00

A chunk out of the middle:

"While renewable energy projects have become increasingly cost-competitive with traditional power plants, some experts said the projected per-kilowatt cost of Jetstream Wind's plant is more than four times higher than conventional renewable sources.
"But you have to start somewhere with a lot of these technologies and over time these things decline in costs," said Mike Taylor, director of research and education at the Solar Electric Power Association in Washington, D.C.

Jetstream Wind believes it can provide consistent power to the grid using renewable sources without any of the emissions that come with generating hydrogen from fossil fuels. The potential of renewable-to-hydrogen power plants is being proven through tests like those at NREL, Herman said, and it wasn't until recently that the technologies needed to make it work were even available.

"We're the first company that had the foresight to jump on creating a combinatory system and putting the pieces together to make it viable for the public and for electrical generation," he said.

Citing proprietary concerns, Herman provided few technical details about the inner workings of Jetsteam Wind's proposed plant.

The challenge to harnessing the electricity-producing power of the hydrogen molecule is finding a way to store the molecules until they're needed to turn a power plant's turbine, said Mike Smith, president and chief operating officer of Air Liquide Advanced Technologies in Delaware.

"No one, at least at this point, has found a truly cost-effective way to store large amounts of gaseous hydrogen so it can be used for future demand," he said, adding that many scientists are trying to come up with such a solution.

Ground was broken on JetStream Wind's project earlier this month in Truth or Consequences, N.M., but the company expects it will take more than a year to build once the permitting process is complete. The plant is expected to generate about 150 construction jobs and 30 permanent jobs.

The project is being privately financed. Herman would not elaborate on who has contributed."

Another challenge is finding an efficient way to break water down into hydrogen and oxygen. Most of our commercial hydrogen is extracted from natural gas because that's the cheapest method regardless of your energy source. They would also have to contend with the energy you lose compressing the hydrogen. I think this one has about as much chance of being built as one of Catmobile's RV designs.

TB

strikes me as a way to get government grants and tax writeoffs.

If that is what they are up to and I do not doubt it -------- I would
look for investors such as Haliburton/Brown & Root. They are masters
at that game.

mike

Government "incentives" to push programs that some politicians favor have been around a long time.

I think the abstract for this old farm starts in 1868 when the feds sold/gave land for right-of-way to a consortium of "investors"
who were building a railroad. Every second section was a free gift and the RR was supposed to sell these to prospective farmers
to finance building the railroad. I can't recall the name of the RR, Mpls and Duluth or something similar.

Anyhoo, all the names are well-known financial moguls from eastern states. The first thing they did was sue the state of MN to get exemption from paying property taxes on the land. As I recall, they won that case. The second thing was to declare bankruptcy before laying a single rail or even clearing a right-of-way. The "investors" divided the assets between themselves and started peddling the land for pure profit. This farm was not desirable farm land
so wasn't sold to a private party until 1912. My former neighbor (now deceased) said his father bought their land strictly for the timber on it, not planning to farm at all.

I think it would be interesting to know which palms were greased to further the legislation that resulted in this windfall to well-connected eastern financiers.
Every program where federal funds are forthcoming will have leeches poised to take advantage of the opportunity. This is not news to the politicians who craft
these giveaways. It's a carefully built structure designed to buy votes from any conceivable interest group.
LZ
.

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