Re: OT Prepackaged Bankruptcy for Big 3 ? - Big Problem

nothermark wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:52:35 -0700, Lone Haranguer
<linuszrv@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

nothermark wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 18:05:47 -0700, Lone Haranguer
<linuszrv@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

nothermark wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:03:22 -0800, "Bruce S" <bruce.snell@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
My brother worked a union job as a copper miner for 30 years. I was quite surprised to find out just how little his pension was. I had complained about how little I was getting from the state of Nevada, but I'm downright well off compared to him. He really must work until SS kicks in, or he would starve. And for that he was unhappy for 30 years.

Bruce
Welcome to reality. Most of he folks about to retire have neither a
pension nor a 401K.
And whose fault would that be?
LZ
It really does not matter.
Actually it matters a lot. Some people spend their money wisely while others fritter it away all through life and then whine when they have to retire on barely enough to keep them fed.

We don't have deserving poor and
undeserving poor in this country.
So two people earn the same from the same factory. One buys toys and lives hand to mouth for 40 years and the other lives frugally so as to save a nest egg.

Then retirement time comes and you want to rob the one who lived frugally and reward the wastrel with the money saved by his fellow worker.

Not me buddy. I don't subscribe to such stupid thinking. Do you cash your pay check and give half to the wino on the corner?

Me neither.
LZ

I would not argue your case. I will argue that in most cases around
here folks took good jobs that provided a decent retirement in their
early 20's then had them snatched away in their 40's when they were
downsized/outsourced/rightsized from the manufacturing economy to the
service economy. Most folks took salary hits on the order of 50% cuts
and stagnant wages to get any job.

Affirmative action focused job losses on white males as the first out,
last hired. The result was often a divorce further depleting savings
and with support payments for the non custodial father and a
relativelly lower income for the mother that put them both in poverty
living conditions for more years until the youngest child hit 18 or 21
depending on the state. Even if they scraped and saved 10% of their
income 10% of not much is still not much and not enough time for
compund interest to do much.

This hit up and down the line from the floor sweeper to upper
management as the factories closed. The folks who kept their jobs and
the folks who lived off the tax base continued to do well. The rest
got screwed. The number screwed has become significant politically.
The only question I have is who is going to benefit from Obama's
plans.

"Downsizing/affirmative action replacement" happened to both my younger brothers. One moved twice and both started over at the bottom at the same time upgrading their skills with night classes and correspondence courses. Both retired with nice pensions.

You can't get in a rut and refuse to leave it. Even the military doesn't guarantee a lifetime job.
LZ
.

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