Re: OT Minimum wage

Max wrote:
"Bob Hatch" <bobhatch@xxxxxx> wrote in message
news:000ad335$0$32284$c3e8da3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Don Bradner" <donb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:9cqhh450tfu8eoogjbnjmttf8vnrs4bngq@xxxxxxx
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 16:35:08 -0700, "Bob Hatch" <bobhatch@xxxxxx>
wrote:

There are only a limited number of things that can happen when a
business is "forced" to increase costs. They can raise prices, the
most likely thing to happen if their labor costs are balanced to
start with. They can cut staff if they can find the place to cut, a
negative impact to the economy. They can cut other costs, which
will in the long run will have a negative roll through the economy.

There is nothing positive that will happen with a forced increase
in labor cost, for the business, or the individual.

I've never made a price rise, nor ever seen a price rise from my
competitors or my suppliers, that could be directly attributable to
any specific increase in costs including minimum wage. Similarly
I've never seen a price decrease directly attributable to a
specific cost decrease (such as when California eliminated the
inventory tax).

Of course you haven't. It's not that direct, like the day after the
law is passed, the prices go up and unemployment increases. It's time
generated. After a period of time the trucking company has to pop
it's price up a tiny bit to cover the cost of cleaning the warehouse
and trucks. On back down the line a price raises here or there by a
penny or two, and eventually it will impact you.

Pricing is much more subtle, and can run counter to costs. What I'm
seeing these days is that we've needed to do across-the-board cuts
in prices in order to maintain volume, even as our costs have risen.
That
has been a necessary choice, because we are heavily dependent on
volume purchasing to maintain current discounts, and allowing volume
to fall by keeping prices where they were would have a greater
impact on the bottom line than reduced retail prices have.

Because, as you've said, you are heavily dependent on volume, you
must maintain volume purchases, but you cannot continue to cut price
to maintain volume forever. At some point you will have to cut
someplace to maintain your profits. Maybe, because you're a good
guy, you've kept all your staff on at full pay. Maybe you've not
tried to find a cheaper packaging for your mail outs, or cut back on
electric or who knows what, but eventually you will. You can't make
up a loss by selling more. :-)

Competition and choices about what volume of business you want to
maintain are primary driving forces. All cost variations (including
loss-leaders) are at least somewhat secondary. You can still get
McDonald's Dollar Menu in California where the minimum wage is $8
per hour.

Of course you can, because they plan on you buying something else.
Bigger fries, bigger drink, apple pie, ice cream. Maybe not everybody
does, but enough do that in the long run the dollar menu produces a
heck of a lot more than a dollar per customer who start with the
dollar order.

Presumably a lot of the volume in those Dollar Meals come from
minimum
wage earners who can afford to eat those burgers precisely because
their minimum wage isn't too minimal!

An that is where the argument fails, because according to:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/images/wm1320_table_lg.gif

The majority of minimum wager earners are suburban teenagers, not who
you think they are.

"Data from the Department of Labor show that most minimum
wage-earners are young, part-time workers and that relatively few
live below the poverty line. Their average family income is over
$50,000 a year. A minimum wage hike, then, is a raise for suburban
teenagers, not the working poor."

The report goes on to say:

"Minimum-wage earners fall into two distinct categories: young
workers, usually in school, and older workers who have left school.
Most minimum-wage earners fall into the first category: 52 percent of
those earning $5.15 or less per hour are between the ages of 16 and
24.[4] The rest are 25 or older.
Minimum-wage workers under 25 are typically not their family's sole
breadwinner. Rather, they tend to live in middle-class households
that do not rely on their earnings. Generally, they have not
finished their schooling and are working part-time jobs. These
workers represent the largest group that would directly benefit from
a higher minimum wage." The table on this page:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/images/wm1320_table_lg.gif

Shows that the majority of minimum wage earners live in households
where the household income is 200% above the poverty line, that most
are part time, and most are between the ages of 16 and 24.

So what you, Giddings, GB and Max are really hollering for is a raise
for teenagers, from above average income homes, who are working for
spending money and experience. Does that knowledge make you feel
good? --
"You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog
will give you a look that says, 'My God, you're right!
I never would've thought of that!'"
--Dave Barry
http://www.bobhatch.com
http://www.tdsrvresort.com

Hey, Bob, I'm not arguing for anything. I'm was just asking.
I can't seem to get very serious about any of these OT threads. I
just like to stir the pot.

Max

NO! No! You're suppose to smoke it.

--
Frank Howell


.

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