Re: Solar Power can now be stored?

On Fri, 8 Aug 2008 17:34:50 -0500, "PecosBill" <w8j5c9o2l7l6u4m8@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

For me, a debate is over when someone starts picking apart individual
sentences. At that point, he's arguing for arguing's sake. Just a few
factual error corrections.


I also carry a
generator. Just in case. Never used it but it's there. Just in case.

Good idea. If you can be patient enough to wait the hours it will take to
"fill your tank".

With the batteries that I'm using (not wet cells) and the generator that I've
designed, I can bring my pack up to 80% charged in about 45 minutes. Actually,
I don't even have to stop, as my generator can supply enough power to run my
vehicle.

If the trip lasts more than about 40 miles, the
control system seamlessly cranks the small engine that propels the car in
a series hybrid configuration and charges the batteries when excess
electricity is available.

Then it's not an EV. It's a hybrid, with a fossil-fuel powerplant and a
backup-battery. Just like a diesel locomotive (which, like the Volt, won't
get too far once the fuel tank runs dry).

No, it's a PHEV - Plug-in Hybrid electric vehicle. For many folks, the motor
will never run. For others like me, it'll run only occasionally. It's a
battery EV with fossil backup.

Oh, and BTW, diesel electric locomotives have no batteries in the traction
chain. Only cranking batteries.

The conversion that I'm working on right now will be like that. This is
my
"going to town" car (truck, actually, as it'll be an S-10 conversion).
Round
trip to town and back is about 50 miles. About 80 to the nearest
Wallyworld/grocery store.

My round trip to "town" is about twice yours.

Really? Where do you live and what town? Not calling you a liar or anything
but I do want to look on Street Atlas.



I'm not willing to spend the money for enough batteries to go that far.
So
there'll be a small engine-generator in the back, highly optimized for
single
speed operation, that will a) charge the pack while I'm inside shopping
and b)
pick up the load when my batteries are depleted to a certain level.

I'll do most of the trip using 7 cent a kWh electricity...

So, you admit that an EV is not practical, since you're building a hybrid.

I think I said that I'm not willing to pay for the range. I said nothing
about practical. I'm a cheap-skate. I'm also an engineer capable of doing a
cost optimization calculation.

I
bet you'll do less than half your trip on "wall power". By the way, my Onan
8kw diesel genset weighs about 500 pounds and produces the equivalent of
about 10 horsepower (8,000 watts divided by 746 watts per horsepower) at a
fuel burn of about 1 gallon per hour. Assuming that you can run your S-10
weighed down with batteries and a substantial generator on 10 horsepower
(and I'm betting you can't), we're back to 60 mpg (1 gallon per hour at 60
miles per hour). If you're looking for relaible, inexpensive transportation,
rather than a homebrew recereational project, buy a Prius and get more
utility for a lot less headache.

If you think that your piece-o-sh*t Onan pig is even remotely representative
of generator efficiency, you're badly mistaken. I've had the opportunity to
see an engine in the research lab of one of the big 2.8 that I consult to,
designed for fixed speed operation in a PHEV that was achieving BSFC that I
probably would have believed had I not been there and seen the data. I know
and understand the technology involved and can use some of it for my project.
I won't be casting new cylinder heads or anything like that but there are
other things I can use.

I'll bet you a steak dinner that I DOUBLE the BSFC of your Onan boat anchor. A
sucker bet for sure, but feel free to call my bet if you dare. I'll be posting
progress reports to my blog after I start actual construction.

There are tables of road HP vs speed for the S-10 fairly widely available on
the net because it is such as popular conversion target. Feel free to look
one up but I can assure you that the truck requires less than 10 HP to
maintain the 45-50 mph speed that I can achieve on this mountain road. I have
the added benefit of regen which puts braking energy back into the pack
instead of wasting it as heat in the brakes. Weight has almost no effect on
road HP, especially with low rolling resistance tires.


...and finish up on fuel
at 50+ mpg. Or more likely, I'll negotiate with one of the businesses
that I
frequent to install and pay for a charging station. Then I can make the
entire round trip on electricity. And I'll have under $5k in the whole
thing.
Just like a Volt on the cheap.

Good luck. Sounds like fun, if nothing else. More work and planning than I'm
willing to do just to go to Wally World, though.

Lemme get this straight. It's too much work to refuel an EV at a filling
station but it NOT too much work to fill up a gas vehicle at a filling
station? Interesting.

BTW, a charging station is a 50 amp range outlet - just like RVs use - and
optionally, a power meter. Many store owners donate the tiny bit of
electricity involved to ensure that the EV driver comes to his store but if
the one I select wants me to pay then I'll pick a meter from my inventory and
slap it in the circuit. Or I'll pay him a flat fee each time I charge. BFD.
It'll take a few hours on a nice afternoon to wire it in. Maybe my definition
of 'work' is different than yours but that kind of stuff is fun for me.


Actually, my neighbor in Newport Beach had an EV-1.

Really? What was his name and what kind of battery did his use? There were
two different types used. You have a 50-50 chance of guessing correctly.
There's an EV-1 lessee directory where I can look him up.

Not bad for a
neighborhood vehicle, but completely impractical for any other purpose. Not
much capability for the money, and cripplingly limiting if it's your only
means of transportation.

GM didn't lease it or intend it to be the only means of transportation. It
was a commuter vehicle. If your neighbor had an EV-1 and he tried to make an
EV-1 do that then he was misusing it. Like trying to cut a 100 acre field
with a push-mower.

The first EV-1s had a range of about 75 miles while the later ones did over
140. Hardly an NEV. There were several charging stations in Newport Beach
including at the airport, several stores and motels. Neither you nor he were
limited by range or performance.

For anyone else interested in an account of driving an EV-1, go here:

http://portev.org/commentary/living_in_the_past.htm

Now John's a card-carrying True Believer but he's also a great writer and is
the holder of the drag racing's low ET record for street-legal EVs.

I find myself in a strange position, defending the EV-1. I consider it an
over-priced and wildly over-hyped car but it did perform well and I have to
call bullsh*t when I see it.

Sure. So long as I could refill it in 5 minutes for those occasions when my
needs exceeds its capabilities.

Why? You can't fill your gas vehicle in 5 minutes. Silly straw man argument.

And the air-conditioning worked really well without halving my range.

I'm currently designing a high efficiency AC system for a client in Southern
NM for his EV conversion. He's decided that a 100 mile range will suit his
needs. My AC system, if used all the time on high while he's driving, will
cut his range between 15 and 20%.

This system has 2.5 times the cooling capacity of the electric AC on the
Prius. We chose that rather extreme spec because of his geographic location
and the fact that his driving involves a lot of short trips with a lot of heat
soak. He'll probably leave the AC on while he's out of the car.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources -Albert Einstein

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: i want some fish n chips...
    ... their lead-acid batteries in between six and fifteen minutes. ... General Motors announced a version of its "Magne Charge" ... Production EVs with lead-acid batteries are capable of up to 130 km (80 ... And as electricity generation moves over to non-fossil fuel sources, ...
    (uk.people.support.depression)
  • Re: SRAM or nuvinci electric pedal asssist
    ... the impressive Tesla electric roadster is the darling of the ... Instead of conventional lead-acid batteries, ... drive it like a sports car you will experience a steady ... and the cost of that electricity (apart from ...
    (rec.bicycles.tech)
  • Re: Propulsion of Jules Vernes Nautilus
    ... "Professor,'' said Captain Nemo, "my electricity is not everybody's ... You see, then, that chloride of sodium forms a ... "So, Professor, I do not extract it by the batteries, but quite ...
    (sci.military.naval)
  • Re: Why Three Rails?
    ... But I don't remember any electric appliances being used -- just house lighting. ... Purely resistance units like lights, toasters, heaters, etc. would need no modification, other than getting an appropriate resistance match for the input voltage. ... Radios and such of the period normally operated from batteries anyway. ... Normally, such an apparatus used several voltages, and needed several batteries to provide this needed electricity. ...
    (rec.models.railroad)
  • Re: electric car maker makes incredible performance claims .....[lite]
    ... portable electricity storage would be big news around the world. ... but the power plants could not be built to charge the batteries. ... Let's say that I need to replace about 1 gallon of petrol burned at 30% ... 75 times less energy per Kg. ...
    (uk.politics.misc)