Re: America

On Feb 6, 4:28 pm, "Bruce S" <bruce.sn...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<al...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:im0kq39j695st2jq5933028nbd3dhrqsug@xxxxxxxxxx

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:30:21 -0800 (PST), Jenny6833A
<Jenny68...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

Quality of life for whom?  And how does one define "quality of life"?
As I told Tom, people differ widely in what they mean by those terms.

No, they really don't differ widely. See my other post.

Tom

I seem to remember from college Psych classes learning about Maslow's
Hierarchy of Needs, a pyramid describing the needs of all humans.

Most (not all) Americans want those needs satisfied in their own
lives, but many Americans don't much care if others needs are
satisfied now or are satisfied in the future. I don't recall Maslow
talking about providing for others now or talking about future
generations.

The bottom level, that is things that must be met before one can seek
satisfaction at higher levels, was things like food, water, and shelter.
Those would be the basic needs for a minimum quality of life.  You can't
survive if these needs are not met, and you can't seek higher levels of
"quality" until you are fed, watered, and sheltered.

We have many people in the USA whose needs are not met at even that
minimum level. A fair number of other countries have far fewer people
whose most basic needs go unmet.

The second level would be safety related, that is some level of security,
employment, and health.  Again most people would agree that those things are
pretty basic to quality of life - in fact most people would agree that
levels one and two are indispensible for a suitable quality of life.  It is
impossible to seek self esteem when you are being eaten by a lion or dying
of the plague.

We have many people in the USA whose needs are not met at that level.
A fair number of other countries have far fewer people who lack the
items you list.

The third level would be family, friendship, and sexual intimacy, and again
I think we can agree that those things are necessary for a suitable quality
of life.  We might find some personal satisfaction in being alone
(sometimes) but as a species, we cannot survive or move forward  without
relationships with other people.

In America, many citizens are stridently opposed to those needs being
fulfilled for a variety of others. They do everything in their power
to see that others don't get them. In some other countries, people
are far more into brotherly love and compassion.

In fact, it is only when we get to the forth and fifth levels, Esteem and
Self Actualization that we can even begin think of survival as a society
without those items.  They are, however, fairly necessary, in some measure,
for anyone to brag about his quality of life.

You recall Maslow more or less correctly. Congratulations. I'm duly
impressed.

So, quality of life has a fairly common definition worldwide ...

ROTFLMAO!

Sorry, Bruce, but Maslow's opinions are not universally accepted.
Some individuals choose other tradeoffs for themselves. More
importantly, many individuals don't care if _others_ have a minimum
quality of life. And many individuals actively try to prevent others
from having a minimum quality of life. We see that expressed in the
media, the churches, and in this newsgroup almost every day.

... - the immediate
particulars may vary in that we may strive for a 4 bedroom house with a 3
car garage, when a third world peasant would be happy with a roof that does
not leak, but in the end, the items needed for quality of life are pretty
much universal.

Not really. Artists, idealogues, students, the religiously obsessed,
and many others put their particular personal goals over Maslow's
minimums -- and are (or insist they are) happy.

 And most Americans are much higher on Maslow's pyramid than
people in most of Latin America, Africa, India, and Asia.

How cleverly you left out Europe, where in most countries the quality
of life is higher than in America and for a larger percent of the
population.

---------

In any event, you quote-mined from my remarks to Carl, and then
criticized something I wasn't saying.

Carl tends to suggest that bigger houses, bigger cars, and more money
equate to higher quality of life. Europeans choose to have smaller
houses, smaller cars, shorter working hours, longer vacations, more
holidays, less stress, and longer lives.

The typical American is after a high standard of living for himself
and his family, but doesn't care if others lose out. Europeans see
quality of life as a societal goal and an obligation -- they want
everyone to have a good life -- so they organize society to make that
happen and derive satisfaction from the sharing it involves.

That's why I told Carl: "Quality of life for whom? And how does one
define "quality of life"? People differ widely in what they mean by
those terms."

You see, Bruce, Europeans have mostly given up all the myths, fairy
tales, and superstitions of Christianity. Most Europenas are
functional atheists. But they kept the best of Christianity's secular
philosophy. By contrast, Americans have thrown away the best of the
Christian philosophy and kept all the crap.

That produced very different views about what it means to have a good
standard of living or good quality of life -- whichever term you
prefer.


Bruce

:-)

Jenny
.

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