Re: Electric space heater?

"Lone Haranguer" <linusz@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:565spjF264i9oU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
D.J. Osborn wrote:

You stated that as a question, which leads me to think you haven't
found it to be true.

That's your problem. I've found it to be true, which is why I
mentioned it.

It's not generally true of residential electric furnaces, which is why I
called you on it.

You called me on what I stated but then went on to make a number of
qualifying statements, none of which applied to my original statement.

My statements applied to your original statement.

Not true. You modified your argument to "properly designed" and "output
BTUs".


A properly-designed *system* is what we've been discussing. If the *system*
is imporperly designed, then the efficiency of the furnace--about which you
made false claims--may be overshadowed by the the inefficieny of other parts
of the system.

You never addressed the reason the OP preferred the gas packs.


I don't know his reason(s), and I don't care. I addressed the false claims
you made

How many electric furnaces do you find in motorhomes or RVs?


That's another red herring. Some RVs have them, and some don't. It's a
matter or preference--for a variety of reasons.

Therefore, I'm not the one with the problem of making

flase statements.

If any portion of my statement was false, WHY is the OP happy that his
unit has gas packs instead of electric?


No reason was ever stated for his preference, therefore, your question just
introduces another red herring.

Different people have different preferences. So what?

Because they work better is the reason he was happier.


No reason was ever stated for his preference.

You've been avoiding his original statement.

No, I haven't been avoiding anything.

I've repeated the OP's original statement. You keep snipping it.
Very telling.


You never quoted his statement.

The OP stated why he was happy with gas rather than electric.
Because it was more efficient. Why do you think his unit was
designed that way?

I have not read a statement from him that gas is more efficient than
electricty. Even if he did make that claim, no data have been provided
to substantiate such a claim.

He's happier with the gas is what he said.

A statement of preference doesn't necessarily imply that gas is more
efficient.

"The heat pumps in our houses have gas-pack furnaces for backup heat,
instead of electric elements. Makes a world of difference. In fact, any
time I want all gas heat, I can switch the thermostat to "emergency
heat" and get really warm air."

Guess what "Makes a world of difference." means?

Provide the quote,

I already provided the quote, so never mind the stalling and tap dancing.

No, you didn't provide a quote.

Liar. I provided it and you've snipped it more than once.

since I don't recall him making that statement. Even if

he made that statement, it's simply a statement preference, and not a
statement of efficiency comparison.

His statement and the reason he is happy with it is what I commented on.

He didn't state why he was happy.

"Makes a world of difference" is why he's happy....liar.


He didn't state what "makes a world of difference" means--or compared with
what the "difference" was made.

Gas DESIGNS are more efficient in providing heat for the amount of
BTUs expended.

No, they aren't. Even the most efficient gas furnaces have a flue that
exhausts waste heat.

And harmful carbon monoxide. How efficient it is at capturing the
input BTUs is a matter of design.

By design, electric furnaces dont send waste heat out a flue, while gas
furnaces do.

But the OP is happy he has gas packs instead of electric heating
filaments. Have you figured out yet why that is?

I don't know--and I don't care--why he's happy.

Because the gas packs "make a world of difference" booby.


A "world of difference" as compared to what?

Electric furnaces have no flue to exhaust wasate heat.

But they use more input BTUs to heat the same amount of air.

Another false claim. The "input BTUs" go into heating the air--and
not
out the flue.

But the electric heating elements don't transfer heat well and they burn
out and need replacement lots more frequently than a gas unit.

What happens to the heat you falsely claim they don't transfer? The
furnace doesn't have a flue, and it doesn't melt down, therefore, the
heat is transferred to the airfl owing to heat the residence.

How many heating elements does it take to equal the heat transfer area of
a gas burner using the same BTU input? That is the efficiency question.


Nope. The efficiency is the comparison between the energy in and the energy
output to the residence. Even the best gas furnaces have an effeciency of
only a little over 90%, while an electric furnace has an effeiciency of
roughly 100%.

The price of electricty has remained at the same levels for years
while propane has doubled in price. At what price would you consider
switching to an electric furnace?

That's a red herring--because we're not discussing the price per unit
of energy--we're discussing whether or not electric furnaces waste
energy, as you have falsely claimed they do.

I'm comparing them to gas. Now, what would the price of propane have
to reach before you would switch to an electric furnace?

No dancing. Put your money where your mouth is.

I'm not the one making false claims; you are.

Nothing false about them. If electric furnaces were so great, we'd see
more of them.
They *are* great, and very efficient--but they're expensive to operate
because electricity is so expensive.

I've just pointed out that electricity costs have been virtually stagnant
for years while gas prices (especially propane) have doubled in just a few
years. And still gas heat is preferred over electric.


The overall cost of heating with gas is still lower than the overall cost of
heating with electric resistance heat.

That means that I'm not the

one "dancing"; you are. A gas furnace has a flue to get rid of waste
heat, while an electric furnace does not.

Even with a flue to get rid of carbon monoxide, you admitted that gas is
still cheaper than electricty, in spite of gas prices doubling in the
past few years.

Of course gas is cheaper than electicity, but that has *nothing* to do
with whether or not gas furnaces are more efficient than are electric
furnaces.

I think electricty is cheap. I'm paying 12 cents per KwH and used $43
worth last month for a house.


That's far from "cheap" for electricity. Gas still costs far less per BTU.

If electric furnaces were such an efficient method of heating, we'd see a
lot more of them.
> That statement completely ignores the cost of fuel; therefore, it's
nonsensical.

The last propane I bought was $2.19/gal. Just a few years ago it was 99
cents. Electric rates haven't changed in years. If electric furnaces
were more efficient users of energy, why aren't any being installed in all
the new homes being built here? All use the Carrier units with electric
Air Conditioning and gas heat.

They must know something you don't.


Electricity is still far more expensive per BTU than is gas.

My bet is you don't own one.
> I have owned both electric and gas furnaces; you lose your bet.

"Have owned" doesn't cut it. Gas is a lot more expensive now but still
you stick with "inefficient" gas heat and builders continue to use gas
heating units.

Therefore, it's quite clear that an

electric furncae is more efficient than is a gas furnace.

Ask Carrier why their many units have electric air conditioning but gas
heat.
> I *know* why "their many units have electric air conditioning but gas
heat." Gas is a much les expensive fuel than is electricity.

So why not have gas cooling in the same unit as gas heating instead of the
combo?


Apples and oranges; another red herring. You clearly don't understand how
gas cooling systems are designed.

Yours is a general statement of no value when both electricity and gas
prices vary widely around the country so you have no backing for your
claim.


Electricity is still generally far more expensive per BTU than is gas. In
those few areas where electricity is roughly equal to gas in cost per BTU,
it's much more common to see electric heating systems in homes, which
demonstrates the validity of my statements.

--
D.J., N8DO; FMCA 147762
dj[underscore]osborn at yahoo dot com



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