Re: Piano Tuning and "stretch"

On Jul 29, 3:22 pm, "Alain Naigeon" <anaig...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
"LJS" <ljsche...@xxxxxxxxx> a écrit dans le message de news:
1185738396.485936.137...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

The context is the Cadential 6/4.

But, since "cadential" implies the idea of a resolution, this looks
like a tautology, doesn't it ?

--

Français *==> "Musique renaissance" <==* English
midi - facsimiles - ligatures - mensurationhttp://anaigeon..free.fr|http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/anaigeon/
Alain Naigeon - anaig...@xxxxxxx - Oberhoffen/Moder, France

Hi Alain,
I am not sure what you mean by this.I was in response to Steve's
asking what was the context of my statements in regard to the subject
which was of course the Cadential 6/4 ( I think that is where this
quote comes from ) so I thought I had to make sure that he knew what
we were talking about. lol Of course there is a resolution. The
Cadence is ultimately a V I cadence. If you have been following this
stupid exchange you know that I have stated from the beginning that
there are many ways to explain musical concepts. Steve strongly
objected to the OTS having an influence on this cadence and insisted
that it just could not be considered a factor and that thinking of it
that way was just wrong. That is what I object to. If this is
tautology then I am guilty but it still doesn't give me any reason
that the HS or OTS CAN NOT be a force to stimulate this cadence. Yes,
it is a different way of explaining a certain event. But it is a lot
more of an explanation than "it is because I say so!" and it is a
natural occurring account of a very important principle of harmonic
motion. But the real importance is that it can explain many other
musical concepts and evolutions as well. "Convention" is not a reason
why things occur. Convention is a description of what many people of a
certain time have done. It does not get to the reasons that it was
done. It can be explained by rules of harmony, but this is again an
account of what people have done and does not give reasons why it was
done by so many people. Using the HS to explain these aspects of music
does give a physical reason that can account for this motion. It can
show why this cadence may have become a convention.

As a theorist, this is important. As freshmen we learned to analyze
functional harmony. We studied the conventions and we learned the
rules and we then progressed to later periods as these conventions
evolved to break these rules and to create different conventions. We
then went back and studied the earlier music in greater detail and we
got deeper into counterpoint. Through out this process, we were
looking for common denominators in each period that we studied. We
were also encouraged and taught that theory was looking for the common
denominators and the differences and connections as music evolved
through the ages.

Yes, there are many ways to account for all the evolutionary steps in
music. The most common denominator or connector that I can find that
actually addresses the WHYs of music is the HS or OTS. If it is
tautology to explain things in a different manner then I am guilty. If
tautology needs to be a needless repetition of different words that do
not impart any additional clearness of force, then I have to disagree.
In this discussion, there has been no mention of WHY the event occurs.
Convention does not tell us why. Learned Attributes (I am still not
sure what that all encompaases) does not appear to address WHY
something occurs. On the other hand, being in conflict with the HS
does address WHY it happens. This is imparting additonal clearness.
The same can be said, although it was never expressed in this thread
that I remember, that dissonance may account for some of the things
involved here. It has been stated, however, that the I 6/4 is not
dissonant! This is perplexing as it certainly does resolve to the V
chord, but the HS explination does indeed address this inconsistency.
This and other reasons lead me to believe that this explination does
help to clear up a few things in this rather simple application and
thus I am not sure how this qualifies as taoutology.

I do confess to not having the best definitions and terms to fully
explain this force in music. That is why I have been persuing this
thread through some of the inanaties that it has passed through. Steve
seems to have his mind wrapped around the definitions and terminology.
I am hoping that he can help me to find the proper definitins and
terms to help clarify this important force in the evolution of music.
So far, I think it has helped. He has pointed out many terms that I
would not have considered to be contradictory and misleading. He seems
to be a "literalist" and seems to focus on the terms rather than the
underlaying concept. I am interested in the concepts and try not to
let the terminology get into the way. This balance has helped me to
come up with some much better ideas of explaining this concept. If he
can learn to actually view this concept he will be very helpful with
my clarity in explaining this outlook. I hope that it can take that
direction. I do not however think that it is merely an unnecessary
repetition of a concept without adding clarification. As you can see
from some of the responses, there is a need for clarity in how people
think of the forces of music.

Thanks for keeping up with this link. Its been like Deja Vu all over
again!.
LJS


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