Re: guide tones
- From: "Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:05:07 GMT
"Joey Goldstein" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:f6c5k8$rq8$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jon Slaughter wrote:
I know that guide tones, atleast in jazz from what I've read, are the 3rd
and 7th. I also heard from several rock guitarists that they tend to
"target" the 3rd.
First, I'm curious as to how this relates to classical music and if there
are certain behaviors that guide tones follow? In classical music the 7th
would resolve down but I do not know how much this holds in
jazz(obviously jazz does resolve notes and I'd imagine if the 3rd acts as
a leading tone it will be resolved upwards)? One thing I'm a little
worried about is that in classical music one tends not to try and double
the 3rd if possible(if a primary triad atleast ) but in jazz it would
seem that it is common to do this?
Second, are guide tones a characteristic feature of jazz? i.e., if I do
not subconsciously or consciously use them it is not going to sound like
jazz? (I guess it depends on what I mean by jazz but lets just take music
from the jazz greats and not some guy beat-boxing(or whatever its called)
and calling it jazz).
Third, are guide tones very strict? i.e., if I use them I better use them
a lot or are they more about "spice" or what? That is, is it an integeral
part of jazz(and maybe good music in general)... and if so is there
certain ways to make them more or less effective? i.e., should I try to
emphasize them in ways like play them on the first beat, resolve to them,
embelish them, end phrases on them, etc..?
Finally, is there any useful things I should know about guide tones?
i.e., is it more than just "targeting" them? The reason I ask is that
when I do try and play the 3rds of the chords it tends to not sound all
that great to my ears. Sometimes it just sounds way to strong although in
some cases, they do sound real good. Not sure what I'm missing... not
that I expect them always to sound good but I tend to actually like to
use most other diatonic notes more than the 3rd. (probably use the 5th
and 2nd the most followed by the 6th and then 7th with the root and 3rd
bening last).
Thanks,
Jon
A "guide tone line" is any simple single note line (comprised of long
rhythmic durations) that tends to codify the harmonic progression such
that if the line alone is heard with just the chord roots the essential
nature harmony is felt by a listener. Often times the root need not be
heard either.
Guide tone lines can be comprised of chord tones (1 3 5 7) or available
tensions (9, 11, 13), and sometimes - although rarely - even avoid notes.
Tensions work especially well in GT lines when they are Tonal notes within
the key (Tonic, Dominant or SubDominant), often better than CTs.
But in music based on 7th chords, the 3rds and 7ths - when heard against
the root (and sometimes with the root not even sounding) - will give the
listener the most obvious harmonic relationships.
The 3rd, against the root, tells the listener whether the chord is major
or minor in quality.
The 7th further defines the chord quality.
Most chords have P5ths, so hearing the 5th above the root doesn't give the
listener all that much information.
On chords that contain them, Dim 5ths and aug 5ths are better suited for
GT lines than P5ths.
But most of the time, especially on the fly (say with a tune you've never
played before), we focus on the way the 3rds and 7ths move from chord to
chord.
Dm7 G7 Cmaj7
F F E GT line #1
C B B GT line #2
In classical music 7ths started out as passing tones between the roots of
chords that had root motion of Up4/Dwn 5.
A more legit sounding GT line results if you approach the 7th chord's 7th
via its root.
Dm7 G7 Cmaj7
F G F E GT line #1
D C B C B GT line #2
Notice that the B nat now fulfills its role as the leading tone in the
key.
If we use D7 instead of Dm7 then its F# also serves as a leading tone
pointing to G.
D7 G7 Cmaj7
F# G F E GT line #1
D C B C B GT line #2
or
Dm7 D7 G7 Cmaj7
F F# G F E GT line #1
D C B C B GT line #2
GT lines are something "strong" that you can always rely on to help you
outline the harmony unambiguously.
Because they are so strong they lend themselves well to ornamentation,
sometimes to extreme ornamentation.
Try playing off of GT line #1 for a while, in its initial form.
Dm7 / G7 / |Cmaj7 / / / |repeat
F F E
or
F G F E
Then try using swinging rhythms of your own without changing the actual
notes or the order of the notes.
Then try messing around with neighbor tones as embellishment. But don't
lose the essential sound of the original line by emphasizing the ancillary
stuff too much.
You might also use the root and the 5th of the chord-of-the-moment as
arpeggiation. But at the *point of the chord change* focus on the 3rd or
7th moving to the 7th or 3rd, respectively, of the next chord.
3 - 7 - 3 etc.
or the more classical sounding
3 - 1-7 - 3 etc.
Then try the same with GT line #2.
Dm7 / G7 / |Cmaj7 / / / |repeat
C B B
or
D C B C B
Then try jumping around from line 1 to line 2 at will.
Then try both lines in all the various octaves available to you on your
instrument.
Good questions lately Jon.
You're probably making lots of progress.
Have fun.
lol... well, I'm not sure if I'm making lots of progress but I seemed to
have gotten out of the whole I was in. Progress is slow but atleast I feel
it now. I just hope I can start making music soon. I'll work on all that
stuff you mentioned and see what happens. I think once I get my ear working
where I can recognize the chord functions, chord tones, etc... then my
musicality will take off. Not being able to understand what I hear is pretty
bad and its very hard for me to apply this theory(not that one needs theory
for music). What I mean is when I hear tunes I cannot break down the stuff
into its corresponding parts and then incorporate them into my own style. I
might be able to immitate it but to me that isn't making music.
What I mean is that, say, when I'm listening to some melody I cannot say
he's playing 1 5 2 3 8 7 5 6 5 4 etc, and I cannot say its over a I V I
progression(atleast not in any real since as I would probably be guessing).
I suppose with time I'll get there but I need to learn to recognize the
different tones qualities over the different progressions. I'm actually
making progress towards that but its just slow.
I guess the good thing is all the stuff I've "learned" about years ago are
starting to make sense.
Thanks,
Jon
.
- References:
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- From: Jon Slaughter
- Re: guide tones
- From: Joey Goldstein
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