Re: The case against modes


"Steve Latham" <llatham@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Jon Slaughter" <Jon_Slaughter@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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I just think that ultimately it makes the progress of a beginner much
slower cause they are not getting the sounds they here in most of the
music they like. The reason is cause there approaching it in a different
way that the people that create the music are doing. (remember, we are
talking about a confused beginner which means they are not able to get
the sounds they hear) Its better to err on the side of to much
information than not enough IMO.



But Jon, you might be projecting your own experiences on to that of every
beginner. You've even said previously that such might not be the case for
all beginners.


If thats the case then modes wouldn't be such a difficult issue. I can only
assume that the current method used isn't good enough when just about every
beginner struggles with it. Its not a difficult issue but since the way
they work and what is generally taught is something different then I can see
how the confusion arises. So yeah, I could be wrong but the current system
is broken in any case.

One of the difficulties in teaching an instrument is how to balance the
technical aspects of playing with the creative aspects gained from the
study of theory. If you err on the side of too much information, you run
the risk of information overload. If you sit with a student who becomes
glassy-eyed while you explain a bunch of theoretical concepts to them, you
soon find you need to balance that with - here's something to play. Now, I
too am not saying that good musicians shouldn't learn as much as they can
about everything. They should. But pedagogically speaking, one must weigh
the practical application against the theoretical application. Education
is based on a tradition of withholding information that is too complex for
a beginner. Suppose for instance you have a student who wants to solo over
a chord progression? Let's say they have only learned Major scales. You
can do a couple of things: You can tell them, no, you're not ready to solo
over a progression because you haven't learned your modes yet. Some
students are cool with that, others are not. For those that are not, you
have to decide if not showing them will cause them to quit, when you know
they have a lot of potential. If they quit, you've lost your chance.


I agree but what happens is when you over simplify you create holes and
misconceptions in the students mind. I had the same problem when I tutored
math and physics. I would always go into to much detail but in reality it
wasn't to much but just that the person didn't want to know how it worked
they just wanted the short cuts to get them through the tests.... but
ultimately if they would spend a little time working on understanding then
they would really understand and not struggle.

What ends up happening is the student learns just what they have too to get
through the test and then the next test and so forth... each time barely
making it and never really understanding it in the first place. If they just
did what they were suppos to the first time they would eventually get to the
point where they would breeze through it and ultimately spend less time
studying.

My issue isn't necessarily the method that is used is wrong but just that it
is explained that way without giving any clue as to the real way it should
work(Which is very simple to explain). Its not that you have to teach the
right way but you can say "This method, right now that I'm teaching is a
crutch to get you start but eventually you will have to learn the right way
once you get comfortable doing it this way".... tell them its a stepping
stone to the next level and not imply that its the only level.

In other words, sometimes it's better to deal out information in
digestible bits - especially in those students you know it will make them
want more. You are absolutely right in that the danger is having them only
learn that one way. A good instructor will of course continually try to
push that extra information (and inquisitive students will ask for it
anyway). So you go ahead and teach that student a rudimentary way of
playing C major over a chord progression in C major. They'll experiment,
and come back in a week and say "but why doesn't it sound like so and
so" - that's when you hit them with - "that's because they're using
modes" - "then can you teach me modes" they say, and you say, "sure".

I think the potential damage one can do by withholding some info and
keeping students interested in music is far less than one can do by
inundating them with "everything they need to know to do X" - because you
and I both know that music is such a complex subject that learning even
multiple layers of complex rules do not necessarily yield a musical
result.


Maybe, but I'm not saying you should confuse the student but just present
them with whats out there. Don't through them in a forest and say "This is
the only tree" but say "You have to cut down this tree to see the next one".
When a student is told something from someone in an authorative position
they will think that everything they say is true. I do realize you cannot
teach them everyone at once or start from the backend but don't ever act
like what your teaching them is THE way if it is not. Because they will
think it is and it will cause more confusion than just saying "You work
through this now to get your mind ready... once you get good at it you can
move onto the next stage which is playing with the changes(which is just
paying attention to the chords)" or something like that.

Having said that - yes I agree - we should persevere in teaching the
rules, and the exceptions to the rules and arm students with all the skill
necessary to be successful in what they want to do, and even in the things
they may find they want to do in the future.


Well, you have to build with something... but the problem is, that in the
risk of simplifying you can oversimplify and present a reality that doesn't
exist(and if that reality is presented to enough people it becomse reality).
So many people either don't understand modes or oversimply it that today 99%
of the tutorials on modes are wrong in that they present only the very basic
way or first step. This leads to people who read that and take it as THE way
and then write books and lessons and teach other people... eventually
leading to the real way being lost.

All you have to say is "There is much more but this is what you gotta learn
first as a stepping stone... learning and then you can move on to the more
difficult way" instead just telling them THE way and then they learn it and
think thats all there is and stop taking classes or whatever and then write
some tutorials saying thats how it is and confuse someone else.

So now all those that really know how it works have to make it a point to
when they see these misconceptions or oversimplifications so that we don't
loose how they really work(which probably will never happen but more and
more people just get confused instead of the whole point which is to help
people).

I also think that the modes are not that complicated and so your
reservations are not really founded. (not that using the modes are easy but
the concept behind them can be demonstrated and the basics can be taught
quite easily and then its only up to the teacher to build up to the right
way).

I'd rather see the method taught something like where the teacher
demonstrates the different modes, how the harmony effects them, how a
professional goes about applying them and then say "But you have to take it
one step at a time so you do not need to think about which chord you are on
yet... just get the modal scales under your belt and learn some modal
progressions and then we'll move onto the next step if your ready". That way
they get to see up close how they work but don't get confused if they don't
get it at that point.. but they are made aware that there is much more that
is involved.

Thats just my take on it...

Jon


.

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