Re: Chord connection


"Abstract Dissonance" <Abstract.Dissonance@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:12d6mml13f33s74@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[snip]

yeah. I can to that too do some degree but only on a limited number of
beats. I guess its just practice practice practice. Like sometimes I
loose track in counting but I know when the 1's coming for some reason
even though I've completely forgot where I was.

I used to play percussion in band, and we'd typically have things like 32
measures rest, one note, 72 measures rest, one note, 16 measures rest, etc.
I got used to counting long stretches like that. Sometimes, the music is
pretty obvious and if you lose your place, you can get back on. Other times
in "washy" slow movements it was quite easy to lose track - that's why the
conductor cues you!


I wonder if counting becomes a subconscious habit after you practice it
enough? (i.e., your brain counts but you do not really have to think about
it)

I think so. If we were talking about 10 measures in a classical piece, I'd
have to count them if it wasn't a "normal" repetitive structure piece. In
pop tunes where I know how long the chorus is, I don't even bother to count,
I just know when it's - 3 - 2- 1 Back in. Depends on lot on the regularity,
predictability, and familiarity with the piece.


[snip]

Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me. Dynamic accents are probably the
LEAST likely to tell you the meter (other than the subtle ones like
playing the downbeat a little touch louder).


oh? Is there a main one I need to know? (I suppose its different for
different music and probably for CPP is harmony?)

Have you not been reading? My point has been that volume is just one type of
accent. If there's a "main" one to know, it's Pattern. When patterns repeat.
But patterns are created by various means, so within that, you need to know
all of them. All of those I've listed previously can be more or less
important depending on what's going on. For instance, as you've noted, a
dynamic accent only becomes important in the absence of other info.
Articulation (which some people migh consider a dynamic type, and some
articulations affect duration, etc.) can be used in the absence of other
info. So it just depends on the context. You basically have to look at a
passage and say, what elements are providing accents at this point?
Sometimes, there can be absolutely nothing except a previously established
meter, so the "accents" don't even have to be present!


[snip]


ok. Well, I might be using meter in the wrong sense.

Yikes! Meter is simply the grouping of stressed (S) and unstressed (W)
pulses.

Meter works on multiple levels simultaneously. For instance, modern Meter
Signatures give us two bits of grouping info: How the Beats are grouped, and
how the divisions of the Beat are grouped.

If the Beats are S W W S W W than it's triple meter.
If the division is s w w s w w s w w, per S or W above, then it's compound,
so:
S W W S W W
sww sww sww sww sww sww

Is triple compound, and

S W W S W W
sw sw sw sw sw sw

is triple simple.

Then obviously we use the numbers to give us specific note values.



It sounds like me that
its similar to how tonality works. You can establish the tonic then
tonicize another tonic but it doesn't really change the tonic.

Right, as I was explaining before. It's not a 1:1 correlation, but there
certainly is the idea that once the Meter is established, it generally stays
the "main" meter throughout the piece.


But we are talking about CPP? Surely this statement is false in modern
music such as dream theater?

Only to a degree. For instance, Dream Theater and Tool and Rush and bands
like that usually still set up some kind of pattern. The meter at the
beginning of Rush's Subdivisions is 7/8, then when the lyrics start it's
4/4. Dream Theater does a lot of "add-a beat" phrases - for instance,
they'll be in 4/4 and then at the end of the 4th phrase, they'll add one 8th
note to make the last measure 9/8 (4.5/4 if you like). Sometimes bands do
alternating meters - Pink Floyd's Money is ofter heard as alternating 3/4
and 4/4 (though you could hear the two measures as one of 7/4). So yes,
there's some variability there, but generally speaking, the meter is usually
maintained for stretches of times, changed for only one measure, or changed
in a recurring pattern, all of which create patterns in themselves, which
help you find your place. Modern bands (at least those that get any
significant airplay) don't really do like Stravinsky where there's a
different meter practically every measure. In Stravinsky, the meter is
changing so much you never get a chance to hear a consistent pattern so you
can never really tell what it is - you have to see the music. But that's
part of the point of writing it that way - there are little surprises in
there.

[snip]



damnit ;/ So my brain is playing "tricks"(I suppose those tricks are
necessary though). I "feel" that it sounds wrong because of some inherent
musical reason but in reality it doesn't sound right only because I'm
comparing it with what I think sounds right and it doesn't match up
properly?

Possibly - and what you think sounds right isn't really right.

[snip]

I'm wondering if there is a metronome studies book that has a bunch of
things like this?


I can't imagine there being one. Maybe percussion books.

The best thing to do is the following:

Take some graph paper, and count each box as a 16th note. Highlight 4 in a
row, a different color for each beat (do 4/4 to start). Repeat as many times
as the paper allows complete measures. You may mark off a measure with a
vertical line or something (and also the beats with a lighter or shorter
line, etc. so like marks on a ruler).

Color in black the first box of each measure. (so you're playing a 16th note
on the downbeat of each measure).
On Row 2, color in the first box of Beat 1 and Beat 3.
On row 3, 1,2,3,4
(so basically you're reducing the instance of an event happening by half 16
units apart, then 8 units apart, then 4 units apart, etc.)

Now what you just did was play One note per measure, then two notes per
measure.

Row three is the next plane down: One note per BEAT.
Now you need two notes per beat, so row 4 is colored boxes on box 1 and 3 of
each beat ( so you're playing on the first and third 16th of the measure,
which equates to 2 8th notes.

Row four is sometimes considered the next plane down, the DIVISION. Row four
represents one note per division, and roe Five will be two notes per
division (or this level is also consider sub-division). Obviously when you
do this all four boxes per beat (or rather, all of the boxes in the row)
will be filled in.

You should hopefully realize that you can extend these planes up or down and
"shift" them to different values. You can even do what's called
"hyper-meter" where, "bigger" than one note per measure, is one note per
"phrase" ( a phrase being 4 measures). So you see you've got 4 measure
phrases, 4 beat measures, and 4 part sub-divisions (16th notes) each of
which can be divided into 2 notes per each of those units, keeping a duple
(quadruple) simple binary system going.

You should try to play these. But, with and without a metronome. When using
the metronome, you should set the click at various levels - for instance,
set it on 8th notes, and play all of the values related to that. Then set it
to quarters and play all of the levels related to it - it's important while
you're doing this to be thinking "the metronome is clicking measures, and
I'm currently playing 4 beats per measure, or quarter notes.

When you count, it's best to count at least one division smaller than what
you're playing, or better, 4 units for each note played (at least until it
gets too small to be practical to count)- in other words, if you're playing
quarter notes, it's best to count 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and, or even better to
count 1 e A a 2 e A a 3 e A a 4 e A a. Again, you need to be thinking "I'm
playing quarter notes and counting at the sub-division level of 16ths".

This is where people mess up - they simply play the 2:1 (or 4:1, etc.)
relationships but they have no idea at what plane (Measure, Beat,
Sub-Division, etc.) they're playing or counting.

After you do this, you get a second piece of graph paper (or turn this one
upside-down and play from the bottom up :-) and start with a box on beat 3
of the first measure (or third measure of 4 if you go up to hyper measure).
Then you put on row 2, a colored box on beats 2 and 4. The next row will be
on 8th notes 2 and 4 - in other words, whereas the first one was Down beat
and secondary accents (1 and, 1 and 3) of Measures, Beats, and Divisions,
etc. this will be the unaccented parts (if you overlayed the two graphs,
you're now filling in boxes half-way between those on the previous page).

After you do this, you can start experimenting with playing on 1 and 2 of
each level. Like a note on measure 1 a note on measure 2, then two measures
rest; a note on beats 1 and 3, and then rest next measure. A note on beats 1
and 2 then two beats rest. Notes on 8th notes 1 and 2 (or beats "1" and the
"and after 1") and two 8th notes rest.

As you do these, you should start to see how patterns like Dotted
Quarter-Eighth are the same as Dotted Half-Quarter (half of that) or Dotted
Eighth-Sixteenth (double of that). Oh, and most importantly, it is ESSENTIAL
you learn to notate what you're playing. FAR too many musicians can play
rhythms by ear but have no idea of what values they're using (they don't
know what durations to use, OR what plane they're on!).

You can actually use this graph paper idea to figure out complex rhythms by
marking the 16th note boxes in which sounds occur while listening to
something (assuming you can follow the 16th note background) and realize,
hey, they play on the 3rd, 7th, and 12th sixteenth of the measure. Then you
can use this to notate the rhythm (at least where the notes fall, if not
their durations, which should be worked on too).

Best,
Steve


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: exercises to learn different chord patterns
    ... besides just forming the chords and playing them 100x times per pattern i ... forming that chord is different especially when switching from some other ... If you'd like to practice changing chords with less bars between the ...
    (alt.guitar.beginner)
  • Re: Chord connection
    ... I guess its just practice practice practice. ... I used to play percussion in band, and we'd typically have things like 32 ... LEAST likely to tell you the meter (other than the subtle ones like ... what elements are providing accents at this point? ...
    (rec.music.theory)
  • Re: Chord connection
    ... But you said that dynamics are the least likely to be related to meter so ... Note Rest Note Note Note Rest Note Note Note Rest Note Note what's the ... stresses where they normally aren't) when the musical events don't agree ... Practice is always good. ...
    (rec.music.theory)
  • Re: chords
    ... Something similar is going on in traditional playing of these tunes. ... Compound meter notation is used when it ... and I like to play it in my own way. ... I found it was easier to create some chords for the major and minor ...
    (rec.music.theory)
  • Re: 3+3+2
    ... >>> Actually the melody is playing ... >> now you give us the melody's rhythmic pattern. ... >> establishing the meter? ... melodic rhythm and accompaniment have the same downbeat pattern given in the ...
    (rec.music.theory)