Re: What's this jazz about the modes?


"David Webber" <dave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dhf70p$jc2$1$8300dec7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

>
> He talked about patterns of notes in terms of tone and semitone intervals
> and I could see them on his fingerboard. And all of a sudden I realised
> it really did look the same wherever he did it.

Yes, which is why we guitarists are so good with patterns. Our instruments
are "multi-linear" whereas a piano is linear. A lot of wind instruments have
very little linearity about them. You may be able to play DEFGABC on a
Clarinet in an obvious pattern, but as you mention below, that linearity is
destroyed if you start the same pattern on D#.

A
> mixolydian scale is just a pattern of tones and semitones. On the guitar
> you can do it starting on G or on G# - it's just the same but one fret up.
> So I can see it could help a lot thinking in terms (broadly) of modal
> scales.

Yes, it can.

>
> On the sax, G to A is a tone and G# to A# is a tone just like on the
> guitar <g> but what you do with your fingers in one case bears absolutely
> no relation to what you do in the other. There is no equivalent to "move
> it up a fret".

And even on piano, you just "move up a key", but visually, this changes some
black keys to white keys, etc. The only place this becomes an issue on
guitar is when you use an open string. A lot of guitarists have trouble
visualizing the open string as part of a pattern they already know becuase
they're not putting a finger on it. But it is.

You just don't feel tones and
> semitones under your fingers in the same way.

Yeah. It makes every one different, doesn't it.

But we do learn
> scales (for better or worse) and if I can play a C major scale starting on
> C for the whole length of the instrument I can play a C major scale
> starting on G. It helps not one iota to call it G-mixolydian.

Nor me. I'm just thinking "C major scale, starting on G".

It is just a sequence of fingerings programmed in to
> my brain. I am used to it and the last thing I need is a different name
> depending on the starting note.

There's an interesting book called the Guitar Grimoire, and it breaks down a
C major scale into starting on each note in succession, and it treats all of
these as a pattern. The problem is, after a point, having to memorize 5
thousand different patterns is no more helpful to me than learning a C
scale starting on G is mixolydian.


>
> When it comes to chords however one doesn't just treat G7 as if it were C.
> You can be aware of the scale of C in both cases, but in one case the
> "reference points" are GBDF and in the other they are CEG. And that
> flavours what you do with the notes of the scale.

Yes, exactly. But here's the thing. Rather than knowing "scales" or
"patterns", I'm a stronger proponent of knowing where every single playable
note lay on the instrument (I'm sure there are notes you can play more than
one way, and the same is true on guitar), and then knowing how they all
relate when you're talking about a key or a mode, etc. In other words, If I
do have a pattern for a C major, or G mixolydian, or whatever, I think it's
important for the player to realize what portion of that pattern "maps onto"
things like a G7 chord. And not only physical patterns, but mental patterns
as well. A C scale consists of W W H W W W H, and if you start on the 5th,
you should realize where it puts all of those intervals in relationship to
that note - doesn't matter if it's called C major, G mix, or Pattern X,
what's important is knowing what notes you're playing, how they relate to
each other, and the underlying harmony, and key, and so on.

Agreeing with you and expanding the Guitarist's viewpoint here,

Steve


.

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