Re: How important are overtones?


"J Jensen" <jjensen14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1123091400.447773.162510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>I appreciate the notes that you and Matt have posted with
> musical content, and I am going to print them out and work
> through them! I don't have Bach's "371" but I do have the
> Well Tempered Clavier and hopefully the Haydn piece that you
> mentioned.

Well, I doubt you have the Haydn, because most people don't - but if you do
that's GREAT!
My relatively recent acquisition of the 371 has been a wonderfule (one of
those things I should have alwyas had, but never got around to getting,
probably like you) - I got a Schirmer/Hal Leonard version that is bound with
a string so the pages lay absolutely flat. I worry that they come loose
later but for now, it's mushc better than my Schirmer Beethoven Sonatas,
whose binding just literally disintegrated.

>
> Of course, I believe that harmony is based on natural laws
> and what works in music works for a reason.

Jeff, think about art. Grass is green, which is a "natural law". But there's
no reason that an artist has to paint grass green (you can carve it, sculpt
it, do pen and ink. and paint it red). There's actually no such thing as a
natural harmony, because the combination of tones in related wavelengths is
a human decision. In nature, we're far mor likely to get noise, rather than
periodic waveforms (animal calls are the only thing that come to mind, other
than wind whistling through reeds for instance). Any natural laws would
basically mean that any sounds generated would occur randomly. The way to
capture this is go outside and record. Just like you could go take a
picture. But art is man's "sculpting" of sound, or "scuplting" of paint on
the canvas. It's an act of taking these natural elements and combining or
presenting them in such a way as to be relatively "un-natural" - all music
is this way - there's no natural music - just random sounds. A few animal
calls are "song-like", but those seem to be the only "imposed" natural
sounds I can think of that come close to what we call "music".

Harmony is man's attempt to control those sounds.

There are constraints
> and composers violate them at their own risk. Modality of
> the Dark Ages is a very primitive style,

By what standards. That's a very one-sided view point.

although it may well
> work for chants.

Well, it did, and they were happy with it for a thousand years. We've only
liked harmony for about half as long, but have not during that time settled
on what is the best way to use it.

"Post tonality" is nothing but a mistake; a lot of
> smoke and noise by a few "elites" that never caught on.

Bullshit. Sorry. But that's implausible. We have Pre-Tonality (Modality) and
that was a mistake too I suppose?

Tonality
> never did suffer any setback; it continues today in almost all
> music composed! And the real music of the 20th century is
> Ragtime, Blues, Jazz, and Rock & Roll...

That's a solidly American/Western viewpoint. Middle Eastern, Indian, Asian,
and so on cultures would disagree with you. As do I. Blues, Jazz and Most
Rock is not tonal. Most have a huge modal component and really represent a
fusion of tonal and modal elements. You're right, there's still plenty
>
> NOTE:
> Krystof Pendericki & Giorgi Lygetti (yes, spelled wrong) had
> excerpts of their music used very effectively in "The Shining".

And 2001 A Space Odyssey (spelled wrong too)

So those were mistakes?

>
> Anyway, you and several other members of this group will
> disagree with my assesment of 20th century art "music",
> and that is fine with me. I'm bringing this up merely to say
> that "post tonal" experimentalism doesn't invalidate the
> natural laws of harmony.

It's not a question of invalidating anything Jeff, it's willing to accept a
picture of red grass for what it is: red grass. It's a natural law that
there's no sound in a vacuum - that doesn't stop science fiction film-makers
from doing it, much to the delight of large numbers of people. In movies
it's called suspension of disbelief. In music it's called a suspension
dissonance.

>
> Now I'm done ranting, and am breaking out the WTC...

Rant accepted. No worries.

Steve


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: How important are overtones?
    ... I believe that harmony is based on natural laws ... and composers violate them at their own risk. ... "Post tonality" is nothing but a mistake; ...
    (rec.music.theory)
  • Re: How important are overtones?
    ... I believe that harmony is based on natural laws ... > But do these "natural laws" have any existence outside of belief, ... bet against the outcome of an experiment challenging it. ...
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    ... I believe that harmony is based on natural laws ... But do these "natural laws" have any existence outside of belief, ... Prev by Date: ...
    (rec.music.theory)