Re: if whittington dies should cheney step down?


Unnatural Selection wrote:
devilphish wrote:
dig under rocks wrote:
| Hunting is lame in the first place .. "Hey Jim-Bob-Sue, let's go hunt
| some animal that doesn't even know it's being hunted and shoot it from
| 100 feet away as it eats some grass in a meadow with its babies, all
| for just the fun of it".

Hahaha...wow. Apparently you eat only grass yerself.


| animals kill only to survive.

Not true.

Digs, you're definitely one of the most fun posters in this group, but
you ain't shining so bright in the debate category. "Not true" is not
a good counterpoint. It might be right, might be wrong, but has zero
substance.

Not sure what you're saying about me only eating grass, but I'm not a
veggie, and I eat animals that were raised to be eaten, and the high
majority of hunters are doing it for the "thrill of the kill" and don't
eat any of what they kill.


Actually, it was a very excellent counterpoint... He gave just as much
evidence as you did when you said "Animals kill only to survive".
Since you are the original statement maker, the burden of evidence is
upon you and not Ryan W.

I was stating something that is inherently clear and shouldn't have
needed much backing. But any simple statement can be countered, so my
fault is only in making the statement too simple. Let me put it
another way - animals don't kill for sport or revenge, they don't have
the mental capacity to have those emotions. They kill to defend, they
kill for food, they kill because they're in some crazy rage like the
pit bull stories we've all heard (which is basically "survival gone
wild", they might well think they need to kill that woman in the
elevator for survival).


In effect, when you said that his point had zero substance you implied
heavily that your original point had zero substance as well.

Your brain must have zero substance. Instead of trying to nit-pick my
points with little technicalities, why don't you instead try to
understand the meaning, not just the words.


Again, in your second paragraph you are making another unsubstantiated
claim...

Where is your evidence to back up your supposition that "the high
majority of hunters are doing it for the "thrill of the kill" and don't
eat any of what they kill."

My only mistake in that sentence might be the part about not eating
what they kill, but you're rationalizing it if you think the main
motivation for hunting is the thrill of the kill.


Is your evidence in your experience? (if so what is your experience?)
Is your evidence in your research? (If so, what is your research?)
Is your evidence in someone elses research? (If so, where is that
research?)

I postulate that you just made up that unsubstantial claim to support
your very weak argument.

Maybe lots of them do eat what they kill, but that's just a bonus.
Most hunters are doing it for the sport, they don't need to do it to
eat. The fact that they do eat what they kill is one way to justify
the barbaric nature of what they are participating in.

If I had to kill to eat, I'd be like some Native American and would cry
for the animal and ask for forgiveness for having to take its life. I
would feel bad about doing it, but realize I had to do it.

All you need to do is listen to the way they talk about their kill.
Their words are all colored with how psyched they were to bag this
12-pointer.


The fact of the matter is, that many hunting seasons were devised to
reduce animal populations that interfere with farming.

Pure justification and rationalization. Sure, herds need to be culled,
but don't try to tell me that hunters go out there thinking "I'm gonna
go cull the herd so the farmers can be better off".

But this is typical coming from you, I say "the sky is blue" and you
try to argue that.

In Wisconsin,
where Ryan is from (which you should undoubtably know, since you
mention the fact that you enjoy his posts), Deer is the main animal
that is hunted. All of the Wisconsin hunters that I've known (I lived
in Milwaukee, WI growing up, so I knew quite a few) hunted during the
season very mercifully (making sure to kill the animal as quickly as
possible) and then would proceed to either butcher the carcass
themselves, or bring the carcass to a professional butcher to stock
their freezer for the winter. I have never known a hunter that hunted
purely for sport (If I have, they haven't talked about it...), so in my
experience "the high majority of hunters" ARE NOT "doing it for the
"thrill of the kill"" and they DO "eat" MOST "of what they kill."

Perhaps you don't realise this, but deer meat is some of the best meat
in the world. It is damn tasty, and I think that it is much more
humane to hunt than it is to keep animals in captivity for their entire
lives. But, that is another argument altogether. Of course, I
wouldn't expect you to know this at all, because you "(only) eat
animals that were raised to be eaten"

As I stated earlier, many animal hunting seasons were devised to reduce
the populations of animals that interfere with local farming. Since
the reduction in these animal populations aids with the farming which
you have benefited from (You say yourself that the food you eat comes
from farms.), you are directly benefiting from this barbaric sporting
slaughter of innocent animals.

Don't push that crap on me. Hunting seasons are devised for a few
reasons, the main one being that, without them, animal populations
would plummet to the point that there would be no hunting. Commercial
fishermen limit their take so they can continue to fish in the future.
So, since the sport's survival depends on having limited hunting
seasons, they pick the best time for this season.

Like I've said before, I don't like it, but I understand hunting and
justify to myself that it's OK for others to do. Without hunting,
officials would have to go and kill animals themselves, so if some
animals have to be killed, might as well let the folks that want to
kill do the killing.

As you can see, Digs logic is that
since you are benefiting from hunters, you might as well start eating
grass to rid yourself from the guilt of the hunt. Of course, this is a
preposterous idea. I've never known any human to subsist solely on
wild plants and grass. Digs supposition is that for you to condemn
hunting is for you to condemn yourself,

Pure BS. Without hunting, we'd have a different solution to enable
farming. Our farming industry doesn't need hunting for it to survive.

and I believe that pointing out
inherent hypocritical flaws in an opposing argument is in fact a highly
effective debating technique.

Therefore, you are WRONG.

If you say so.

devilphish


Thank you.

Hope this helps!

Have a nice day!

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: OT: To everyone complaining about the Dixie Chicks
    ... actually going to kill anyone. ... I must admit I find his stance on animals and hunting a bit ... You're conflating "hunting" with canned killing. ... In the case of large-ish game, ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: OT: I wish this cat got this coward
    ... who hunt dear etc. to eat". ... Killing animals for the sport ... I do eat my kill, but that's not why I hunt. ... Oregon stopped allowing the use of dogs to ...
    (misc.fitness.weights)
  • Re: OT: Vissitudes of hunting
    ... You are equating hunting ... If you trap the animal then you have to kill it but you pretty much have to look it right in the eye to do it. ... I think what sets me off about the hunting and killing of wild animals is the absolute VIOLENCE of it. ... It's a VERY fine balance and there will be difficulties and losses until that balance is reached. ...
    (rec.crafts.textiles.needlework)
  • Re: PETA Staffer Legally Changes Name To KentuckyFriedCruelty.com
    ... >> I'm too hungover to fight, but how can you (and mass producers such as ... Unless you hunt and kill all your own ... > organisms eat each other. ... > actually caring for individual animals, ...
    (rec.pets.cats.anecdotes)
  • Re: OT: Vissitudes of hunting
    ... It's a new run on 'Let them eat cake' ... I do see a parallel between hunting and animals killed in a ... The hunters are wrong IN MY OPINION and I am happy to take a stand against the current type of "hunting" under discussion. ... There's no arguing about the fact that people in Western societies eat far more meat than is healthy. ...
    (rec.crafts.textiles.needlework)