Re: Feedback Control


Thanks for the response. One of the problems with the situation last night
was that there was no sound tech, and the board was difficult to access from
the stage. I was coming late from another gig and there was no time to mess
with getting the right settings. I'm a little spoiled as my regular gig is
playing and conducting a show here in Las Vegas where everything is set up
and checked for me ahead of time (I just play piano on that gig, not
accordion). For my own enjoyment, I play gigs at a local blues club or
sometimes just sit in. This was the first time I brought the accordion.

I like the idea of sending the signal directly through the mains and using
in-ear monitors. The venue is small enough that the band can hear me through
the mains, so I wouldn't have to put a signal through the floor monitors. I
agree that feedback suppression devices alter the sound, though sometimes it
can be acceptable. I usually play keyboards as well, so switching to an
in-ear system would give me less to carry around.

Jeff


"tommy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <presivhoa@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1145910890.460553.120010@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I frequently play in loud situations, often cutting heads with a Les
Paul through a Marshall. I never have this problem. Why wouodln't run
your sound through the mains and monitors is beyond me but orthodox
engineering techniques and simple physics would point you first in that
direction.

Let's table the shortcomings and problems with these internally
installed senhieser mics for a moment and deal with the most obvious
issue. Anytime a microphone's pickup pattern is in the path of the
speaker output pattern, feedback will occur with increasing volume.

If you would rather try a device as opposed to proper technique then
you can purchase fomething like the Peavey Feedback Ferret. This is
basically a multiband compressor driven by an IC chip. The Ferret
automatically detects the feedback frequency, and since the speed of
light is millions of times fater than that of sound, it is able to
squash the feedback before it ever becomes audible. There are a few
competing versions of this as well as Peavey's.

The problem with this approach is that that an internally mic'd
accordion artificially creates and blows out so many harmonics and
overtones that more likely than not a feedback Ferret is going to
really squash and muffle your sound. Can't really tell until you are on
stage because the actual volume, facility acoustics and sympathetic
frequencies from otehr players simply cannot be predicted.

The concept of have all microphones behind the speakers is of course
the only orthodox solution to your problem. Unfortunately because we
accordionists move around so much on stage, it is almost impossible to
keep the path of our internal mics from crossing the path of todays
wide dispersion monitors. Letting the main speakers do the bulk of your
amplification is without argument technically the best place to start.

A mic'd guitar cabinet is different from a mic'd accordion cabinte. If
a singer tried to sing through a mic'd amplifier he would experience
the same troubles you did.

So then, here is the finishing touch to help you.

1) Let the main speakers carry your direct signal. Forget an external
amp.
2) get a seperate monito mix for you only, one with the accordion up
nice and loud so you can hear it.
3) Use an in-the-ear monitor and do not stand in front of a physical,
floor monitor. Not knowing your financial situation, there are some
sophisticated monitoring systems that allow each player to have a
personal in-ear-monitor mix with individual control.

If you are not standing in front of a floo monitor, it may be possible
that one monitor mix will allow you both to hear yourself and to also
not experience feedback.

Hope this helps.

I am Tommy V and I approve this message.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Slightly OT: using mics live etc
    ... To counter feedback problems with our own PA, we've tried various decent mic's without wanting to pay silly money, changes to EQ settings and a feedback destroyer or two. ... As another poster said using a feedback destroyer is not necessarily a good idea on the whole mix as you can end up with a situation whereby the FOH sound ends up sounding more than a bit nasal like it's coming out of a pair of megaphones rather than a reasonably well specified PA system. ... Isolating the exact cause of feedback can be difficult, but re-aligning the angle of wedge monitor to mic or FOH speaker to mic can sometimes help pinpoint the cause as the feedback will either stop or get worse. ... It's a terrible rehearsal environment as all the walls ceiling and floor are all hard reflective surfaces and any sound simply bounces around and finds its way back quite easily into any open mics. ...
    (uk.music.guitar)
  • Re: Building new PA system in stages
    ... sound company and pay them to hump the gear. ... The battle after that was to get them to stop using the Behringer Feedback ... The second problem is leaving filters open to pick up more frequencies as ... monitor and mic be placed in a position that did *not* correspond to the ...
    (alt.guitar.bass)
  • Re: Building new PA system in stages
    ... sound company and pay them to hump the gear. ... The battle after that was to get them to stop using the Behringer Feedback Destroyer. ... The second problem is leaving filters open to pick up more frequencies as you play. ... The guitarist insisted his monitor and mic be placed in a position that did *not* correspond to the dead spot on that mic's polar pattern. ...
    (alt.guitar.bass)
  • Re: Feedback Control
    ... your sound through the mains and monitors is beyond me but orthodox ... feedback will occur with increasing volume. ... A mic'd guitar cabinet is different from a mic'd accordion cabinte. ... Use an in-the-ear monitor and do not stand in front of a physical, ...
    (rec.music.makers.squeezebox)
  • Re: Feedback Control
    ... without feedback was to put my amplifier at the front of the stage and stand ... My accordion has 3 Sennheiser mics installed - 2 on the treble side, ... It's best to keep your amp next to you or behind you and use the 'line ... request a monitor to my right to hear the soloist/vocalist I'm backing. ...
    (rec.music.makers.squeezebox)
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