Re: Doubling on clarinet? What are the basic transition problems?


Stephen Howard wrote:
On 21 Aug 2006 00:10:24 -0700, "vYu223@xxxxxxxxx" <vYu223@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Stephen Howard wrote:
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:11:59 +0200, Afoklala <afoklala@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
<snip>

In other words you can't back up your assertion with any physics.
I can.

Anyone wishing to test this should simply play a mouthpiece alone and
see what is required to change the pitch of the note produced.
Try raising the pitch using breath support alone - and as/if the pitch
raises, try relaxing the lips.


Sadly, physics can't answer everything. Like religion, music can't be
entirely explained through physics. Life just isn't that easy.

I agree - but it as well to understand what is real and what is
mumbo-jumbo. There's no crime in understanding the laws of nature ( is
that a less threatening word? ).

No sir, there is no crime in trying to get to understand something to
the best of your abilities. However, you seem to base everything on
facts. You seem to refuse anything else. You don't seem to keep an open
mind. There is no "mumbo jumbo". I am actually quite offended that you
openly stated that my words were "mumbo jumbo." An understanding of the
science of the instrument is great, however, that does not make for a
great player. It all comes down to experience.

Even changing different brands of reeds can affect the tone of the
instrument, and even the playability, depending on the player. Just
making a mere sound out of an instrument doesn't prove anything.

Er...yes it does. It proves many, many things.
There are, however, quite a lot of people who would have you forget
that - because there's money to be made in alchemy.

When I said that it doesn't prove anything, I meant that it doesn't
make you a good player if you can just make a mere sound out of the
instrument. It doesn't mean that you're actually making beautiful music
come out of that horn. Of course sound waves are coming from the
instrument, and that is easily proven.

Neither than exclaiming that all instruments that utilize one reed
utilize one reed prove anything either. So what? There's a difference.
Even if it's the same instrument. Even if you change the mere BRAND of
the reed. Even the ligature!

You need to study the relationship between the rate at which the reed
vibrates and the effect that has on the standing wave in the
instrument's air column.
Remember...tone is not tuning.

And tuning is not tone. Being able to play in tune does not mean that
you are a good player. There are many other aspects to music besides
being able to play in tune. I can play a note perfectly in tune on the
sax, whilst making the most horrible tone I can. It's in tune!!
However, it sounds horrible. You also basically proved my point. My
point was that there is a difference between the smallest things. Then
you talk about rate of vibration. So you're saying that different
brands have different rates of vibration, correct? That means that
there, in fact, IS a difference.

Like the other gentleman said, the clarinet and saxophone are different
in that there are different degrees and rates that you have to
compromise embouchure for.

You must have missed a post in this thread - specifically the one in
which I stated "The tightness of the embouchure varies just as much
as it does for clarinet - it's just softer overall."
Apparently you agree with me.

Ah, yes... However, I've stated that there are different rates, meaning
that a sax player transitioning to a clarinet will use the same rates
as the sax, and will have difficulty transitioning. It is different.
Difference is the key word here. My point is that these are totally
different instruments. Even if they both happen to have keys on them.

One can only learn from constant practice.
Even then, there may be some difficulty. I play the alto sax. I am
first chair--lead alto--in my school's jazz band. However, when I pick
up a clarinet, I can barely make a sound out of it. Does that make me a
bad player? Not necessarily, because I have not learned how to play the
clarinet, which is much different than the alto saxophone. However, I
plan to double on the clarinet, as well as the flute, eventually. But
only through constant practice may I be able to play those instruments
well. Because they are different.

Why make things difficult for yourself? Why not try to understand what
is the same about them and give yourself a head start?
Can you not see how useless mumbo-jumbo is?
Grab a handful of science - use it, apply it, let the understanding it
imparts aid your creativity.
Believe me, once you do you won't have to faff around with fancy ligs
and the like.

I am not making things difficult for myself. I am just understanding
and acknowledging the difference there is between the two instruments.
I can and will learn how to play the clarinet through constant
practice. Experience is not "mumbo jumbo." Not once have you stated
that you speak from experience. How can I trust your opinion?

Have you heard of Rovner ligatures? They are more suited for classical
music, because of the insulation it provides for the reed. It makes for
a darker tone. For jazz, a lighter, maybe metal ligature, with the
least amount of contact points on the mouthpiece (to prevent too much
insulation), can be used in order to produce a brighter tone.

In a world where I would have to choose between science and experience
(in this area--music), I would choose experience. That's what it all
comes down to. Just knowing it isn't enough. Science is great, but
experience is better.

I don't mean to offend you; please don't take the next few words I am
about to say personally. You sound like a physics professor trying to
explain the beauty of music--through physics... which can't be done.

Ah young Jedi - much to learn have you, yes.

Do you mean to offend me here? What are you trying to say to me?
Obviously you cannot speak from experience... You just seem to "know"
how everything is, and refuse to keep an open mind to others'
experiences and opinions.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Science may apply to almost everything, but in the end, it all comes
down to experience.

Do you speak from experience?

.

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