Re: New pamphlet about Position Playing

On Jan 16, 6:17 pm, van <sg...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Dan Adler <d...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:









On Jan 15, 2:23 am, van <sg...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 14, 10:48 pm, Dan Adler <d...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 13, 7:18 pm, van <sg...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 13, 6:51 pm, TD <tonydecap...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 13, 6:34 pm, van <sg...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 12, 6:34 pm, TD <tonydecap...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 12, 6:22 pm, van <sg...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 11, 9:22 am, TD <tonydecap...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Jan 10, 7:48 pm, Joey Goldstein <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I just put together a series of Position Playing exercises for my
students (and me).

Tell me what you think.

<home.primus.ca/~joegold/PositionPlayingExplored.pdf>

Note: I did this pretty quickly and have not really had a chance to
proof-read it yet.
Please let me know if you find any mistakes.

Thanks.

--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>

"You will also find that most really good guitar players, people WHO
have a real strong sense of flow in their line playing, tend to shift
position a lot, seemingly avoiding finger stretches as much as
possible" - paragraph 2, page 3. "

This is an important statement and very true, but you may consider
clarifying by editing to: "avoiding *unnecessary* stretches." To avoid
as much as possible may lead the learner into assuming that stretches
are to be avoided in general because they are wrong. Position shifting
and stretches are both productive when necessary. Stretching, in
certain cases, may be the best way to either facilitate a sought after
phrasing or permit the player to segue into a chosen outer territory
in a jiffy, or both.

-TD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I mentioned in the Atilla Zoller thread that AZ got me into position
playing when improvising, but I was astounded to see that Jimmy Raney
changed positions like a madman when I saw him live. With all respect
to AZ, IMHO JR was the stronger, more "definite" improviser of the
two.
I think Tal Farlow solved the problem of creating long, flowing lines
in position by virtue of his hands and the smaller scale fingerboard.
Some of his shit in the late 50s will bring you to your knees in tears
if you try to cut it at tempo. Lenny Breau realized this, and I almost
had a heart attack when I heard LB copy note for note one of Tal's
best lines.
Eddy Palermo seems to be the new heir to Tal and LB's linear legacy.
Nobody's JR's heir.
Sure, there are other players with more modern sounding lines, but
great jazz has to have the musical logic of Bird, Bud, Brownie and
Bach- and that's just staying with the Bs ; - )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You're on target about logic; a k a form and story-telling (too many
are concentrating on the acrobatics), but Tal was also utilizing
positioning plus stretches. Waiting for you to come over and play a
few tunes.

-T- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'd give anything to see a video of Tal pre-1959, but Guy only lists a
few things with Red Norvo, of which "Play It Cool"(1955) is the
closest to his prime.
I don't know if I'd trust any of his post-1960 stuff, or Rochinski's
and Grassel's fingerings.
When asked to show a student how to play some of his stuff from the
50s, Tal said he honestly didn't remember any of that stuff(!).
I bashed my pinky in really bad, and it's taking a long time to heal.
If you listened to Bloomberg's State of the City speech yesterday, I
and many of my colleagues are going to have a lot of free time on our
hands soon, so when my pinky heals, I'll call you.
I've been spending a lot of time at Court St. and Water St. preparing
for my new life as a bum ; - )- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Best way to cop Tal's ideas/fingerings, concept within, etc is via
listening extra, extra closely. You can cop his fingerings that way
(*timbre* and traces of pivoting, shifting and stretching) and this
reveals a melange of chord form and unorthodox navigation. A lot of
clever arpeggiation within improvisation savvy there. Mix Raney and
Farlow and you've got yourself a fine blueprint to add your own scene
to.

-TD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My "arms are too short to box with God", and my hands are too small to
play like Tal, but you're right- knowing how he did his things would
help even the most advanced players adapt Bud Powell to the guitar
better.
I've listened to Jack Grassel's stuff online, and while he's a fine
player, I don't hear the Tal magic there as much as I hear it in Lenny
Breau. Lenny spent 14 hours a day for years copping Tal's shit back in
the late 50s, while JG got to know and play with Tal towards the end
of his life.

Jack's duo album with Tal is a gem:http://jazztimes.com/community/articles/24882-jack-grassel-tal-farlow

Enjoy,
-Danhttp://danadler.com-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

While we're on the subject of position changing, I should point out
that, leaving all other factors aside, I've seen video clips of DA
playing, and his position changing ability is phenomenally smooth. How
did you develop the ability to switch positions on the three highest
strings playing continuous lines going back and forth so smoothly?
The clip I saw had you going back and forth from fifth position to
maybe ninth or tenth positions.
As far as DR and JR, DR was playing in an extroverted manner that his
dad would never in a million years have played in.
If you compare that to the early recordings when they played with Al
Haig, you can hear DR's evolution.

Hi van,

Not sure there is anything worthy of learning in my
technique...probably just the Chuck Wayne extended arpeggios which
make every position extend to 5 frets plus slides.

-Danhttp://danadler.com-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That must be it. One of my students stole a copy of that one where you
put the clear sheet with the frets over it before I had the time to
really work with it myself, but I have another copy that I haven't
seen since I moved two years ago. Time to go on an exploratory mission
into that great, black, dreaded pit otherwise known as my bedroom
closet.
If i make it out alive, perhaps one day I will develop more facility
in that aspect of playing.

van,

There is really no big secret to the Wayne arps. One and Three on
string 6, Five on string 5, 7 and 1 on string 4, 3 on 3, five and
seven on string 2. Same back down. Then, the same idea starting on
string 5 for all chord types: 2 notes, 1 note, 2 notes, 1 note, 2
notes. Up and down diatonically. That's it.

-Dan
http://danadler.com
.

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