Re: {OT:} Glenn Beck is strapped when he goes to the movies

On Aug 8, 1:10 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld
<bornfeldm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
windcrest wrote:
On Aug 8, 1:10 am, Gerry <somewh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2009-08-07 19:40:18 -0700, windcrest <passp...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:

I'm not in favor of the govt plan at all.  But the "market" system
wont work simply because there is no real "market" for health care.  A
real market has buyers and sellers and open pricing.  Care in USA is
paid by insurance, so people with insurance are not incented to shop
for better prices, etc. its largely "somebody elses money" that paid
for my operation.
No, generally we like to find a doctor who we belive in, rather than
endlessly chasing anybody who will give us a better deal.  But that's
supposed to be one of the horror stories--"They're going to make us
change our doctors!"

When one needs a standard procedure the system should not hide
competitive open pricing.  Price fixing, secret payment amounts for
services, and backroom deals made between insurance companies and
hospitals all contribute to a non-existing market and a system that
hiders consumers and providers.

Also there is no market because hospitals cant even
tell you prices if you are an un-insured cash payer, try it, you'll
have fun getting the run-around (sarcasm).  No open prices means no
competition, insurance keeps the prices hidden and fixed.  Great
system IF you are insured.
Not really, with life-time caps on service, denial of services that
stand between you and the gaping maw of death.  In the end their job
(as everyone already knows but Sicko underscores) is to deny everything
they can--the more they deny, the more they make money.

Suing an insurance company will usually lead to negotiation, they have
limited resources to pay lawers and eventually want to negotiate
settlements.  The govt has unlimited resources, suing the govt for
malpractice will leave you stonewalled as their lawers can be paid ad-
infinitum with tax dollars, unlike your lawer.  The govt run health
system law as laid out in the 1000 page plan is statutory law much
like tax law, it is not based on fairness and negotiation at all.
There is no provision for negotiating settlements.

And yes, the absolutely highest quality
advanced care anywhere too, but you have to be insured to use it.  No
insurance, no access.  Thats the problem.  The govt system does
nothing to change that.
Government health-insurance doesn't provide insurance?  Or are you
saying that the "absolutely highest quality advanced care" will not be
provided by government insurance. Only semi-high quality?

I'm saying that having all health care provided via insurance itself
is wrong.  Govt should discourage laws that make it undesireable for
people to buy services without insurance, and create a real market.
Like making all health expenses a direct credit at tax time (not an
unreachable deduction like today).  And requiring all hospitals and
providers to publish prices, quality ratings, malpractice incidences,
etc. so people know what is a good value for their money.  Via tax
dollars or premiums, it is their money and they deserve open pricing.

The govt will simply be the largest insurer,
with infinitly deep pockets to stomp out any malpractice suits or
denial of service law suits and present you with an un-fightable wall
of autocrats when you are dissatisfied.  Have you ever tried getting a
postal autocrat to do something just a little different, to make you
happy, it doesnt happen.  Govt workers work on policy, policy is an
excuse to not think, not thinking is a recipe for no customer
satisfaction.
Government workers are easy to make sweeping statements about. I
personally have never tried to get a postal autocrat to do something a
little different. Have you ever tried to get Cigna to do something a
little different with a medical claim?  How's that work out?

Absolutely, all the time.  I have re-negotiated at least a dozen
claims to my satisfaction.  I have gotten claims paid where pre-
certification was not asked for, I have gotten claims paid by having
the doctor or carrier simply re-code the claim.  Ive gotten re-hab
claims settled after my policy ran out of re-hab coverage when I broke
my wrist.  Eventually they will negotiate.

A better approach is to simply open up all pricing, take steps to
reduce costs, increase incentives for medical workers and doctor
education, get some sanity in the malpractice area and that insurance,
etc.
Dang that was easy.  How do you reduce costs and make them stick across
the whole industry? And "sanity in malpractice and insurance" that
means the customer can't sue for losing a kidney, right?

There are many ways costs can be reduced, but the first way is the
best and that is to make sure people receiving the care are aware of
the real costs.  Right now everything is hidden in the deals between
insurers and hospitals, even the costs shown on your claims are not
the real amounts paid.  If you need a service that your insurance does
not cover, you cant even get the hospital to quote a valid price for
crying out loud.  By sanity in malpractice I dont think hand surgeons
and obstetricians should have to pay 150K in premiums per year for
liability insurance, no.  We need more doctors not fewer.

Without doing the above, the govt stepping in to be just another
insurer will not improve anything.
And then, once all that's done, keep jacking up the prices so everybody
in the loop can make more money.  And next year, more money again.  It
needs to be a non-profit system like it was pre-Nixon.

So teachers, UAW members, construction workers and other professions
cant get raises either?  What is so different about nurses and doctors
that they not be allowed to earn more money for profit as their
carreers progress?  A non-profit system is a system that will also not
produce any medical breakthroughs.  Why would I spend my time
developing an artificial limb if I know I wont be allowed to sell it
to hospitals at a profit eventually?

Interesting information on this page about the history of orthopedics,
implants and where they developed.  I kind of knew that Sweden was the
biggest innovator in modern dental implants (Branemark), but I didn't
know the variety of countries involved in development of artificial joints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_surgery

Steve

  Why would a company put 500

million dollars into development of a new drug if they know they cant
sell it and recoup their investment?  Why would people invest their
money in medical companies if they know those companies will never
produce a profit?  Universities would no longer be able to sell their
research either, or cooperate profitably with drug companies?  So you
are saying essentially that everyone needs to go out of business and
just let the govt do it all on a non-profit basis?  Also medicine in
America was never non-profit, I dont know what you're talking about
with pre-Nixon.

If given the opportunity it always leads to overfishing a population to
death.  That's humankind for you, unless you control them.
--
 -- Beware the delicate, tiny, very talented celebrity starlets.

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When I broke my wrist the fixator that was used was recently invented
by a doctor working with a machine shop that happend to be in his
neighborhood. My doc told me the two collaborated and made a very
good business selling their fixators and were among the best made at
the time. It had ball joints on the shafts that allowed the doctor to
reposition the joints in 360 degrees maing it suitable for breaks that
spanned a joint. Unlike other fixators that only worked
longitudinally. This kind of innovation happens yearly in the medical
industry and should not be squashed by govt non-profit requirements
IMHO. What if you invented a better filling material, wouldn't you
like to think you can use it to start a profitable business, advance
the dental arena and help many people? Wouldn't you deserve to make a
profit for taking the risk of developing your product and backing up
its safety? My next door neighbor here has a family business making
dental implants, he's constantly telling me how he's experimenting
with different crystaline resins and molding techniques. They are
doing quite well.

.

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