Re: Which scale?
- From: tonydecaprio@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 10:06:08 -0700 (PDT)
On Nov 1, 11:08 am, "Rick Stone" <rickst...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<tonydecap...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
Rick, My reply to your statement was based solely upon in respect to
the original thread and not your statement as isolated discourse for a
vagrant voicing or a voicing associated with parallel scales or non-
parallel scales. He posed Harmonic Minor scale it's third degree
chord, end of story. You were creating your own story concerning
writing charts and the band discerning, etc, but I was only on target
of Finn-Land. I would not use Ebmaj7#5 add 11, personally. Chord
symbols are shorthand, indeed, but again my reply to you was based on
Finn's data only. In addition, where the crux of the question meets
the vortex of my balls, I see no notion of a suspension there.
Suspended from what?
I think we agree about the naming of the chord being off. If you tell most
piano players to play Ebmaj7#5 add 11, they're going to rightly assume that
you want the "11" on top (rather than burried next to the third in the
chord), which is going to give you a REALLY nasty m9 interval between the
3rd and the 11th (that's why we leave the major 3rds out of chords with
natural 11, right?) So to get the piano player to play the chord Joe was
actually hearing (Eb, G, Ab, B, D) I'll stand by AboMa7/Eb. Piano players
don't have this aversion to slash chord notation that seems to exist in the
guitar world, and my only real reason for notating a chord is usually to get
the pianist to play/hear the thing I intended. Once they've got the
voicing, they'll pretty quickly hear what's going on and choose the
appropriate scale (hence I don't worry much about the enharmonic spellings).
Somewhere along the line I missed Joe's statement about the C harmonic
minor. I just sat down and played it at the piano again, filling in the
scale notes around the chord notes and can see that either scale works.
It's also part of the Cm6/diminished scale (as taught by Barry Harris) and
that creates a ton of possibilities for voice-leading and movement. But I
guess that opens another can of worms . . . .
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Absolutely in accord with you, if we free ourselves up from the
limitations of one scale source and permit ourselves enharmonic
freedom. Yes, I can hear Abdim/Eb and I suggested that early on along
with Abmi/Eb and Gtriad to name a few as tone collections heard within
the initial chord voicing. In addition to your preferred chord, I hear
the proposed voicing, whether G is in tact or not, as being drawn from
G Phrygian. And I believe that it is precisely this phyrgian sound
that some here are confusing with suspension. If we accept for guitar:
Eb Ab D ( and do what Keith suggests and delete the +5) and put the Bb
on top, I hear a quartal voicing on the 6th degree of G Phrygian,
utilizing the large 7 and 4th as "roomies".
Now, I can most likely accept this mimicking a sus2 resolving into G-7
or Ebmaj7/G, but I would never call that phrygian yield as Ebmaj7sus.
As long as you have the large 7th present with the 4th, you have a
tritone, thus immediately negating the idea of maj7sus. It is simply a
"phrygianization." The tritone brings you into Bb7 territory or your
Abdim or E7, etc territory used as hybrid *over Eb*. As an effect, I
hear the tone collection as V7 and Imaj7 rolled up into one ending
chord (if used that way for example).
Now you may disagree with my perceiving here, as may a few others
here, and this is OK for me. I do not profess to know everything. I
actually know nothing, but I am open if anyone can show me an example
that has been used in print in any modern textbook concerning jazz
music ( I dare not say the taboo phrase, "Jazz Theory"...whoops!! I
wrote it) of maj7sus4 chord. Any example where the large 7 is present
in such a voicing. Maybe we can get the Berklee cats in on this? I am
really open to learning about it, as I am open to learning at all
times. I have never seen it. Where is it?
- Re: Which scale?
- From: Keith Freeman
- Re: Which scale?