Re: 7#9 chord equivalent

On Aug 7, 1:11 am, "Chickenhead" <kuNOSPAMrtshaTHANKSp...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
"Joey Goldstein" <nos...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:f961r3$br3$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

When she's singing, she's actually in F (I think), and the chord is
Abdim7(b13). (Hope you're not thinking of a different place in the form.)
The BG line, in the strings, is:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & |1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & |
F E D Db Db D Bb Db B

Add up the 4 notes of the Abdim7 chord (Ab B D F) with the NCTs that are
in the BG line (E Db Bb) and you're just 1 note shy (G) from the full dim
scale. It should also be noted that Db, which is actually accented, is
chromatic in the key of F, yet this arranger found a way to make it sound
great.

I'm using Nat's version, not Natalie's, but that's the string line on bar
three of the vocal verse in Nat's too. Admittedly, I didn't pick a very
good example.

While it's "technically" correct as far as I can tell, it steps on that
cool pure sound of a C triad over Db.
Hmm. Not sure which arrangement of this you're referring to.
I'm used to the male vocal section being in Bb,

Nat's version. The solo modulates down a major 3rd, as far as I can tell.
In Natalie's version, the bass note on bar 3 of the solo is an E, in Nat's
version, it's a Db. As far as I can tell, on Nat's version, the strings are
doing a pizzicato C triad arpeggiation. That all having been said, it's a
bad example since an 8 note standard diminished scale works just fine on
that one. Don't know what I was thinking when I picked that example.

If you're looking for someone to argue against 1 b9 #9 3 #11 5 13 b7, in
whatever inversion, that would not be me. All I have to say is don't whip
it out on every b9, #9, or diminished chord in a chart, or you're going to
hurt someone and not in a good way. There are of course plenty of times
it'll work just fine; there are also plenty of times when it'll stink. In
other words, to get back to the OP, I'm just warning the OP that because
there's a #9, it doesn't mean there will necessarily be a b9, #11 and
natural 13. I suspected, possibly wrongly, that the OP was making that
assumption.

You can probably say it better than I can.

His initial post was: "It is convenient to think F#dim7 for F7b9 .
Since there probably wont be a root in any of the voicings , ..... is
there
a handy way to think of F7#9 .

( Fsharp dim 7 , F7flat 9 : , F7sharp 9 ) "

I think that several people read extra things into his post. He was
really looking for enharmonic substituitions for F7#9 the way I see
it, perhaps the symbol is too distracting for him to begin with or he
was just interested in integrating it. I thought it good for the OP to
address the source scale for the #9 which I have reiterated and
reiterated. I believe in not playing the Ostrich; delving further is
the way. Anyone can pick up a ball and throw it into a glove, but no
one becomes a player without really studying the game.

You replied with:

"I'm just warning the OP that because
there's a #9, it doesn't mean there will necessarily be a b9, #11 and
natural 13. I suspected, possibly wrongly, that the OP was making that
assumption".



Well that is good to warn any beginner of. If there is a legit
"chart", which I assume that you speak of an arrangement with horns
and/or strings or even a piano part, no player is going to juggle the
extensions that are reap-worthy from an altered dominant chord, as
well as the source scale. The arranger dictates the voicing because
there are many things going on with the other instruments as an
arrangement. When lines are played, concerning strings, for example,
the momentum of the lines, bass part, and overall harmonic
underpinning is at large. Clashes can occur within transit of all
these parts. Rhythm alone can take part in the clashing. A novice
would not be hired to play guitar in such a situation. The interval
variants and harmonic tensions established in some of these chord
resultants affect the music in a big way. No, this is no bringing your
guitar to the beach subject here. However, in a jazz setting, where
no specific arrangement dictated (still shy of the novice), more
liberties may be taken. Less restriction = more liberties, but taste
and listening play a big role, nonetheless. And often this depends on
whom the comper comps for. Does the soloist dig being fed voicings and
substitutions and tonality shifting (over a pedal) or does he/she
prefer to do the feeding or a little of both? You choose your
extensions (or you accept them being dictated to you), like you choose
your grapes.

.

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