Re: The Black Origins of Jazz ( continued)

Come off it, I suppose that in the broadest sense we are all Afro-Americans,
Africa being the cradle of mankind. I'm sure that this is great
consolation to those thousands of Black citizens whose relatives were
lynched, denied jobs, forced into second class citizenship, imprisoned,
laughed at, denied a decent education, swindled and so forth. No one seemed
to have had trouble identifying them in those circumstances, Now you have
the nerve to be a part of a movement which would co-opt one of their
greatest Art forms. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
Charlie

"Gerry" <address@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:130620062308518060%address@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
In article <0f6dnT0-Ks2bEBLZnZ2dnUVZ_sKdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxx>, charles
robinson <robinsonchazz@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The only thing I've managed to get from the divergent theories are
references to the "Lost Chords" book and a lot of hairspliting when
it comes to what Race people were considered to be part of.

If it's critical to determine a person's race in order to support an
argument that "blacks invented jazz" then one would have to have
certainty in this regard. Thus, a lot of hair-splitting. If you think
it's difficult to do I assure you it's even more difficult to witness.

The main focus seemed to be the relationship between Creoles and the
others of African heritage in New Orleans. Since the end of the 19th
century both were seen to be of the same background with Creoles
being considered to be light skinned Blacks.

See this is the stuff that's so creepy: You're forced by your argument
into categorizing people of mixed race as either black or not-black.
They are of mixed race. Only laws and theorists need to split the
hairs. If you feel comforable doing that with a sweeping statement
that "creoles were considered black" the logical question is, by whom?
By someone who matters? And these people that matter, what did they
think of folk that were one-drop black? And you? Do you consider
anyone of any level of mixed race black too. All this crap needs to be
answered in order to establish what YOU mean when you say black in
order to support "blacks invented jazz".

When you head down the hair-splitting route to substantiate your
argument, that's where you go. It sucks, and I sympathize, but that's
where you wind up trying to substantiate ideas that are not hammered
flat by documented history.

But the divergent theories had the laughable position of presenting
Jelly Roll, Fats Waller and even Duke (!) [because of class
distinictions] as being non Afro Americans.

Not true, as has been stated again and again. The argument was that
their musical influences aren't necessarily from the African-American
community. What is the name of the person who cites these three people
as not being African American.

Beyond that there was a lot of talk about goverment classifications
of Race and a false picture of a great world where Blacks and Whites
harmoniously produced the music together.

Your dismissal of Blacks and Whites mixing musicially is based on an
authority that said they didn't exchange ideas?

The article that I have presented is one more confirmation that the
earliest White jazz musicians thought of the music as being Black
music.

When was it established that the proof that "blacks invented jazz" was
whether Bix and Mezz's influences were dominated by Black music?

The fact is that Creoles were of African decent and were in the end a
part
of the overall Black culture of New Orleans.

The fact is the you haven't clearly defined what constitutes a black
and what does not. The fact is that many Louisiana creoles knew only
French culture as a reference point for music and the other aspects of
their life. Clearly your concern is only where there grandparents were
born. Music and race aren't about some picture in a family scrapbook.

If you can't define the such terms for a phrase like "blacks invented
jazz" to mean anything.

I'll assume the response to all my other questions is "I dunno".

--
Talk does not cook rice. -- Chinese saying


.

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