Re: God forbid anyone should like anything!



Thingo wrote: 
Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

I think this is more in the realm of metaphysics and philosophy. 


No, it's also science, if you accept (like heavy-duty research
institutes worldwide, and nobel-prize-winning scientists like Ilya
Prigogine) that whole classes of systems (like nearly all biological
systems) have intrinsically unpredictable behaviours precisely because
of this issue.

I'll need some context. That statement is so vague as to be meaningless to me.



Physical parameters cannot be measured to infinite precision, but they
can be measured reliably and consistently to a stated variance.



Sure, until someone comes up with a better form of measurement,
publishes papers, starts a debate, and wins or loses. Anyway, the point
is that measurement is relative to a standard, not absolute, not
'objective' if that means a separate realm of judgement from any
others. Well-established measurement techniques and standards give you
judgements very near the 'certain/simple' end of the continuum, not a
special class of statement.

Sorry, I don't understand your usage. Measurement is by definition relative to a standard. Jazz, OTOH is measured--how? By what standard?




	When does denying the quantifiable stop being useful and start to
become a copout?



I'm not "denying the quantifiable", whatever that means (my biggest
current reading enthusiasm is neuroscience; it's fascinating to see
what people are doing in terms of attempting to quantify things that
seem fuzzy, like reciprocal altruism).
Neither is Ilya Prigogine, Richard Kaufman, or any other scientist
working in the fields of complex nonlinear systems, etc. It's just a
matter of understanding what measurement gives you. Profoundly
excellent evidence for many judgements, yes; absolute certainty, no; a
realm of judgement separate from some magic 'subjective' realm, no.

I am unfamiliar with the work of these men. Are they behavioral scientists or neurobiologists?
Of course, I am a clinician. I don't work with "non-linear systems", I work with blood and bone, coeficients or thermal expansion and prothrombin times. I see "magical" thinking all the time--I see every reason to think that for all practical purposes there is utility in thinking that they belong to a different realm from the clinical parameters my license depends on every day.

Steve



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