Re: An Altered Line over a II7
- From: "Charlie Robinson" <robinsonchazz@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:16:58 -0400
Charlie's 7#9 will fall out, though
I think that was Joey's 7#9 (but I like it too). I'm right about 85-90% of
the time here it's just that when I am wrong it is such a perfect,staggering
wrongness that it brings a feeling of awe to all that behold it.
<jurupari@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
> Sure - For say, Exactly like you, ipanema, peg o' my heart, A-train,
> etc. Making the key, like F, the tonic chord fits the major toneset,
> but the second chord fits the major toneset a fifth above it in a
> 'mixolydian' sense. But if you sharp the 4 the G7#11 chord can be
> treated like a 4 of melodic minor.
> The melodic minor in question is D, and any concoction of clusters from
> D melodic minor will just put the same tensions in the chord, viz.
> (speaking of the G7 chord with G as root now) R 9 3 #4 5 6 b7.
> That's the whole scale, so any chord or cluster made up of it just
> gives you a subset of those tones, and they will sound good.
> As an aside, I heard a tune from Dale Bruning awhile back where he made
> use of this by just taking two adjacent tones from the above melange
> and playing those - the minor second intervals along with Mark Simon's
> bass line made up the chord, and he could move them around and get
> different parts of the change. It was typical Bruning synergism - less
> is more, and it sounded fantastic. Wide open spaces and the ear sort of
> interpolates the missing tones. Wish I'd thought of that! :o)
> The tritone of the 4th tone of a melodic minor scale is the seventh
> tone. Either can be seventh chords, but for the tritone (sub of 4, or
> G7) the 7 is the root.
> For G7something, that is C#, so thinking C# dominant gives you (from
> C) R 3 b5 #5 b7 b9 #9, but it's the same tones as the tones from G.
> Since there are a couple of m6 or m7b5 chords in the mm chord scale and
> there can be a dominant at 4 5 and 7 made from the same tones, just
> knowing the chord scale can open up some possibilities.
> Even more can open up if you mess with tones a little more. Trying the
> toneset associated with the upper structure of the leading tone
> dominant (E7 in the same key) will put you at F melodic minor, or for
> that matter A harmonic minor.
> I'll leave it to you to analyze F melodic minor or A harmonic minor
> tones as functions of a G7 chord since it's fun to discover that stuff
> for yourself. Charlie's 7#9 will fall out, though.
> I don't know if you like major 7th in a dominant chord, but if you try
> an F# harmonic minor, you get some consonant tones with the motha
> chord, G7something and a jarring tone.
> Another thing I like against that sound is Fmaj7#5. It comes from (one
> place) thinking of G7 as the 5 of melodic minor, and it's a damn good
> sound too.
> There are three others that work very well too in varying grades of
> dissonance, but this is getting long. I hope I've been clear enough
> to enable you to put some of this to use.
> Anyway, I hope you and others find some use for all this - it works
> pretty well for me and gives me some different stuff.
> The b9 as Marc said below this is a tricky tone, but I love it in the
> middle of a chord, or with a 13b9 in the 2 position, like 3x6453 or
> even on top more like 3x3454. Not every pass but it can brighten the
> sound and give the listener a 'whoa!' moment if done right.
> By the way, I was really taken by your ballad lines you put up
> recently. You have a good sense of melody and balance to me, so these
> may be something especially good for you to feed your improvisation
> engine if I've presented it clearly enough for you to make sense of it.
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