Re: Improvising over a Coltrane II V I variation...

The way I see it is that the "Coltrane changes" work by sequencing 3
keys whose tonics symmetrically divide the 12 tone scale into 3 equal divisions.

You're probably already hip to the idea of sequencing an intervallic pattern.
C E G, Gb Bb Db, C
That one works by dividing the 12 tone scale into 2 equal divisions.

The whole tone scale is a sequence of maj 2nd intervals moving in maj
seconds thereby dividing the 12 tone scale into 6 equal divisions.

The diminished scale is a sequence of maj 2nd + min 2nd, maj 2nd + min
2nd. It works out to be 4 identical sequences that divide the 12 tone
scale into 4 equal divisions.

What makes Coltrane changes different is that he is sequencing *keys*
rather than intervals. If you don't actually explicitly outline those 3
keys the effect is lost.

The usual way to approach the changes is to play the maj scale related
to the key-of-the-moment.
C maj..Ab maj...E maj..C maj
Dm7 Eb7 |Ab B7 |E G7 |C

Emphasizing the notes in the chord-of-the-moment will yield the most
satisfying feeling of organization.

Your idea of trying to keep all of the non chord tones from the C maj
scale is interesting (C maj *is* the primary key in this application of
the Coltrane changes), and you might get some mileage from that. But it
will be somewhat unusual sounding, moreso than the way outlined above
because you won't be clearly outlining the sequence of keys.

Along the lines of Clif's suggestion try this:

On the V-I sections in C maj use G maj pentatonic.
On the V-I sections in Ab maj use Eb maj pent.
On the V-I sections in E maj use B maj pent.
On the min7 chords use the min pent scale from the root, aka the maj
pent from the chord's b3.

F pent Eb pent..B pent G pent
Dm7 Eb7 |Ab B7 |E G7 |C

If you want to get more adventurous with chromatics then start doing all
the same tricks you would on any V7-I progression. Altered scales on the
V7 chords. Lydian scales on the I chords. Etc. But be careful, because
altered tensions on dom7 chords are suggestive of minor keys rather than
major keys. This sequence of keys works best if the keys being outlined
are unambiguously major keys.

Another trick is to play one scale through the entire progression that
has all the essential tones of all the chords in the progression, the
augmented scale (min 3rd-min 2nd) starting on C.
C Eb E G G# B C
It's a hexatonic scale that can be thought of as the sum of C+ and B+.
Within this scale are all the tones of the 3 maj7 chords involved in the progression:
Cmaj7, Abmaj7, and Emaj7.
An aug triad built on each root of the 3 dom7 chords can also be derived
from this scale:
G+, Eb+, and B+.
Using this one scale over the entire progression is a little bit "out
there" but it can also sound pretty strong with experience and taste.

Justin Harding wrote:
>
> Hello all... I've recently been playing around with a Coltrane variation (at
> least I'm pretty sure it's a Coltrane pattern) of a II V7 I in C major...
> and I've been trying to find the best way to approach it while
> improvising... The chords in the progression are
>
> Dm7 Eb7|Ab B7|E G7|C
>
> One approach I was taking while improvising over it was to think of each
> chord individually, which would give me these scale choices... this sounds
> more tonal... as the only outside tones from the key are some of the chord
> tones...
>
> Dm7 = D E F G A B C D = C Major
> Eb7 = Eb F G A Bb C Db Eb = Bb Melodic Minor.
> AbMaj7 = Ab B C D Eb F G Ab = C Harmonic Minor
> B7 = B C D# E F# G A B = E Harmonic Minor
> E = E F G# A B C D E = A Harmonic Minor
> G7 = G A B C D E F G = C Major
> C = C D E F G A B C = C major
>
> Then I was started to try and look at it modally
> I used C major for the Dm7, then I looked at the Eb7 Ab as being a V I in
> Ab, then I looked at the B7 E as being a V I in E major... and then a V I in
> C major, G7 C. This approach sounds more modal, I used C Dorian for the V I
> in Ab, and then C# Minor for the V I in E... and of course C major for the V
> I in C... This approach to soloing over the progression made it a bit
> easier, since you don't need to switch scales almost every 2 beats...
> especially handy when playing with a band at high tempos... It's also nice
> because you could use a D Minor Pent on Dm7, or the E minor or A minor pent,
> and then C minor pent for the V I in Ab , which is convenient because you
> need to shift only 2-5 frets depending what pent your playing previously,
> and then a C# minor pent for the V I in E...
>
> But I guess the reason I'm posting this is to get a opinion from the
> educated jazz musicians here... I'm self taught, so I might be making a huge
> mistake in my analyze... Does it really matter which approach I take? (minus
> the outside tones from the modal approach...) would you use an entirely
> different approach for soloing over these changes?
>
> Thanks...

--
Joey Goldstein
http://www.joeygoldstein.com
joegold AT sympatico DOT ca
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Improvising over a Coltrane II V I variation...
    ... > That one works by dividing the 12 tone scale into 2 equal divisions. ... > The whole tone scale is a sequence of maj 2nd intervals moving in maj ... > On the V-I sections in Ab maj use Eb maj pent. ... > On the min7 chords use the min pent scale from the root, ...
    (rec.music.makers.guitar.jazz)
  • Re: Another scalar insight.
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  • Re: Discrepancies in the "Lyndian Chromatic Concept"
    ... tempered maj 6th or to a just intonated maj 6th. ... An interval tuned to 27:16 is the closest thing in the OTS that we ... Reduced to a scale we get: ... overtone series are the P5ths in relation to themselves, ...
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