Re: OT: More Thuggery

On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 09:38:31 -0400, "BobN" <nobody@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

OK, take it beyond someone you know. No one here has identified a single
instance of use of the Patriot Act against ANY ordinary American citizen,
yet many here have said they fear its "chilling effect". So whether its
someone you know, or a factual source you can cite, do you know of any
incidents of abuse of the Patriot Act?

Jose Padilla
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3208

Brandon Mayfield
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/32772prs20071114.html

Sherman Austin
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=110&contentid=1436

Eliot Spitzer
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Spitzer_a_Patriot_Act_victim.html



http://action.aclu.org/reformthepatriotact/facts.html



And anyway, arguing that the Patriot Act is okay because you don't
KNOW of any specific abuses (which would most likely be secret anyway)
is like arguing that the whole Bill of Rights is unnecessary because
Denmark doesn't operate under the US Bill of Rights and they don't
have soldiers quartered in private homes.

I used to try to warn right-wingers about their short-sighted support
of the erosion of civil rights by invoking three words "President
Hillary Clinton." Well, that isn't going to happen (but if it weren't
for Barack Obama, it would come true on Jan 20th), but the point still
holds. I don't think Obama will (or Clinton would have) used the
newly expeanded power of the federal government (how's that for irony
- if you consider yourself a "conservative"?) for nefarious purposes.
But some future president *could* - and they might not be a president
*you* voted for.


Nice tactic, to parse my post and object that I don't personally know Joe
Wurzelbacher. But totally dishonest as a debating tactic, one that should
draw boos from the audience.

Yes, your debating tactic WAS dishonest. And you were busted on it.



Bill, I've followed up every link you've suggested, and thank you. But I
also have found them completely unconvincing. I'm still waiting for your
affirmative statements as to what the US should do to restore its image in
the world.

That's been answered for you several times. You clearly are not
interested in honest examination.

.

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