Re: Thoughts about Cedar tops. . . .

In article <Rl5si.14874$4A1.12686@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Tony
Done <tonydone@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<JimLowther@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1185990356.064094.155920@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Greetings!

I really like the sound of a guitar with a Cedar top. I like the
quick response for fingerpicking. However, I really do not like the
softness of the wood and the nicks and marring that seems to come too
quickly and easily.

I have been toying in my mind about a two ply top--basically a
quatersawn Cedar top with a (much harder) veneer cap. Any thoughts
how well or how poorly this would work? I would expect the veneer to
also be quartered, and a good sound radiator such as Spruce, but maybe
even a hardwood (Mahogany, Koa, Butternut, Yellowheart come to mind).

Okay, is this idea competely off the wall, or does it have some merit?

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther


I wouldn't contemplate it, because you end up with a plywood top, as Tom
said. Whatever advantages cedar has will very likely be lost by glueing a
heavier cap to it. Plus you would need to find someone who can
**competently** do it. For that kind of $ I would be finding a good luthier
and getting Engelmann, which also has a good reputation for fingerpicking,
or whatever he/she advises.

Tony D




Perhaps you should look at double-top construction, which sandwiches a
thin layer of honeycomb Nomex between two wood pieces (each thinner
than a standard top), creating a lighter and stiffer top.

Go to Alan Dunwell's site:

http://dunwellguitar.com/


....and click on the "Double Tops" area.

You could also go to Tim McKnight's site. He is also building with
double tops:

http://www.mcknightguitars.com/


This particular work (with Nomex, for double tops) began 10-15 years
ago in the classical community, with Greg Smallman doing this.

Chatting yeserday with Paul Woolson (another fine builder,
http://www.woolsonsoundcraft.com/ ) I learned that some of these
double-top techniques have been around for many, many years in the
classical community...including building a thin top with light wood
bracing and gluing a second thin top to the bracing. Using Nomex is a
different and possibly better solution to retaining (or adding to)
stiffness while reducing the mass of the top considerably...with a
benefit to vibration, rather than dampening vibrations as with what we
know to be the case with inexpensive guitars with laminated tops.

Different combinations of woods are used ALL the time. I would chat
with Dunwell or McKnight, since they may have used wood combinations
that match what you are looking for.

It's my belief that this particular method is going to be the coming
thing for fine handcrafted guitars.

McKnight is also building a "hollow-back" (as he calls it)
construction, and is following what Smallman and others are doing in
the classical world with creating super-stiff sides by laminating fine
hardwoods (such as rosewood, etc.).

There may be an element of our community, armchair quaterbacks if you
will, that will chime in with "plywood," and refer to cheap imports.
Regardless of these naysayers, all of the above processes (double tops,
hollow back, and double or laminate sides) have been used for years in
the classical world for many of the best instruments out there, and
the folks in the steel-string word that are following this path are
breaking new ground with their artistry & workmanship to create tonally
and structurally superior instruments...as good, at least, as the best
of the best in regards to what some consider "traditional"
construction.

I applaud these innovators, and also those also brave enough to utilize
their talents for the steel string world in combination with these
ideas. Ultimately we will benefit with better guitars at the top end,
and perhaps some of this will trickle down to production guitars, as
well.

--
Larry Pattis
email: LP "at" LarryPattis "dot" com
http://www.LarryPattis.com
.