Re: Asha, Lata, and RD Burman: Who Really Won Over RD Burman?

On Jun 30, 4:45 pm, Ketan <Ketan_mem...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <d22f87dd-35d3-4403-a4ac-01e6d8fa6...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Asif says...

You have eliminated entire movies/songs where Asha is in great form and then >>
you are surprised at the low 27% number? I am sure you put it a lot of hard >>
work in doing this exercise but when the intelligence gathering itself is
badly flawed, it is difficult to take the final analysis seriously.
Ketan
That 27% is for hit songs, and I sourced it from BGM annual and weekly
lists, and my own research material on hit music. I can confidently
say that I did not eliminate or forget any hit Asha-RDB song. Will
you please list a few that are missing? And also let me know where my
list is "badly flawed".

There are 3 basic flaws:

1) What is your own research material? You need to share that too. Simply saying
"my own research shows xyz was a hit song or not" is not good enough. In an
earlier analysis, Abhijit, Vinay and you have shown that in the 5 year period
from 1971-75 RDB had the largest number of hits. In that thread someone(possibly
you) complained that RDB would have had more hits in the weekly/annual BGM lists
if BGM allowed such a large representation from a single MD. Well, if BGM did
not allow all RD songs to make it, can you really depend on BGM lists and count
in a fair manner, the # of Lata/Asha songs that made it and assign points based
on that?

2) An RMIMer who was very much around during the 70s had once mentioned that the
songs of "Garam Masala" were huge hits and received a fair amount of radio time
when he was in college. Yet I don't see a single song from that movie on your
list. Hence I suspect flaws in your "Hit/Not-Hit" ratings.

3) Anyone who thinks Lata could have sung "Dum Maro Dum" and produced the same
effect as Asha, has been smoking something wierd(not weed). Literally speaking,
yes Lata could have sung any song. We are not being literal here. We are talking
about the end effect. Asha's voice is not her natural voice. I strongly suspect
that RD heard songs and/or watched videos of the Woodstock/Monterey festivals,
heard the pot-thickened voices of Janis Joplin and Grace Slick and noticed the
effect these drugs had on their voices. Taking that as his cue, he has changed
Asha's voice to be similarly heavier than what it is in its natural state.
Lata's voice is simply not capable of being that heavy. Your exercise of
awarding bonus points is therefore entirely subjective and hence flawed. Could
Usha Uthup have sung D-M-D? Yes--and she does a brilliant job in "I Love You".

Ketan


So your “anonymous” RMIMer friend is a proof/truth, and my “research
material” based on more than 30 years worth of feedback and first-
person accounts of two generations of music lovers and avid radio
listeners, including myself, is a basic flaw? How come, Ketan? How
is that fair? My research material is now in the form of a 60-page
Word document that I typed over the past 10 years. I would have loved
to share it just to show you my credentials on this subject (hit
music), but I cannot do it until a book that I have planned to co-
author with Mr. Anil Bhargava (who published a couple of other books
on HFM in the past) is published. The weekly BGM lists are mostly
photo-copies of original hand-written diary pages (in Urdu) from Mr.
Maajid Maqbool (one of the founders of sdburman.net) and (in Hindi)
from Mr. Bhargava – I have typed weekly lists only for years 1973-76
so far. I have been collecting more fist-person and reliable memories
and information on hit songs (from yesteryears) wherever I get them
from. And I got to know about almost all hits songs from the ‘70s
from my uncles, older brothers, other senior radio listeners from the
neighborhood in my hometown, and relatives and other persons in other
towns/cities (mainly Gwalior) by the turn of the ‘80s itself. And I
knew the release years of all those films then too – full 20 years
before I got Hindi Film Geet Kosh (1971-80). I asked about and
collected popularity information on each and every song I got to
listen in those days – then and over the years since then. And nobody
ever told me anything about the songs from Garam Masala (1972) being
popular at all. This is my research material. Where is your friend?
I am sure he told you that the songs of Garam Masala were huge hits in
his “college”, not “college days”. Are you sure he was not smoking
pot when he said that? I would have been delighted to know particular
hit song(s) from this film as claimed by your friend, but you sadly
dismissed my “research material” as nothing and relied on your
friend’s vague information of “songs being *huge* hits”. Plus, I was
disappointed that you chose just one album (Garam Masala) to dismiss
all my work. It would have helped me if you provided more missing hit
songs/albums – and helped yourself too in making your point.

As for ‘dam maaro dam’ (Hare Rama Hare Krishna, 1971), this is exactly
what I said:

“I believe that Lata could have sung both ‘Dam maaro dam’ and ‘I love
you’ at least fairly well enough to satisfy RDB, so no bonus points to
Asha here. The song ‘Dam maaro dam’ remains memorable for the way it
came out of Asha’s vocal chords and RDB’s baton, but it was not a
diffcult song, including the intoxicating ‘uu turu tuu tuu tuu tuu aa
aa aa’ refrain. Lata rendered a similar refrain in ‘Albela
re’ (Rampur Ka Lakshman, 1972) equally well.”

Where did I say Lata could have produced the same effect? Plus, it
was just my humble opinion and should not make any difference to the
count of good and hit songs by Lata and Asha for RDB, as I said
elsewhere. And sure the bonus point was entirely subjective (I wanted
to know others’ thoughts), but it hardly makes any difference to the
final count.

Anyway, I don’t want to argue with you, and you don’t have to agree
with me either. The exercise was purely my own enjoyment, but I
believe the numbers are close to facts and that's why I decided to
share them here. I just wanted to see where the singers stand, and
that’s why I spent time on this exercise. Even though I am a diehard
fan of Asha-RDB songs myself like you (apparently), I did neither mean
to play favorites (Lata or Asha) nor to impose my list and numbers on
anyone. If you or anyone else wants to add/remove any song from my
list, let me know those songs and I will update my list mainly for my
own knowledge/pleasure and generally for posterity here. Thanks.

Asif


.

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