Re: How to pronounce 'Kwaab'?

I find it a bit funny (ironic) that we are quibbling over the correct
pronunciation of the 'w' in Khwaab, whereas the bigger issue is the
the pronunciation of the 'Kh' itself!

Afzal A. Khan wrote:
Zafar wrote:
My own pronunciation involves a much shorter "waav" -- almost
gliding over the letter. If you see some of my postings in
RMIM or ALUP, I tend to write the word as "KH(w)aab" --- the
letter "waav" is written between brackets. It is neither
pronounced in an elongated manner n(iror omitted altogether.

I'm surprised to learn that you pronounce the word with a "shorter
waaw." You must be aware that the "waaw" in Kwaab is called the "waaw
e ma'adoola" (ma'adoola = one that is omitted, skipped over) and it's
never pronounced -- it's a silent letter. This waaw is exclusive to
Persian language and does not occur in Arabic. Other words containing
waaw e ma'adoola and commonly used in Urdu are:

Khwaahish (Khaahish = desire), Khwaaja (Khaaja = person in command),
Khwaan, as in dastar-Khwaan (Khaan = dish), Khwaahir (Khaahir =
sister), Khwaar, (Khaar = wretched), etc.

The only legitimate pronunciation is "Khaab" (or "Kaab" in itrans) ...
no trace of the w sound at all.

Zafar

I just indicated the way I pronounce these words, including
the words mentioned by you. I don't think I called this
legitimate.

BTW, there is a lot of difference in the way people on the
sub-continent (or at least in India) pronounce Farsi (my
reference is to special Farsi words or Farsi verses). People
who have Farsi as their mother tongue do tend to pronounce
them in a different way. I am not absolutely sure but
"aashiana" would be a suitable example. Persians I think
pronounce it more like "aashianeh". I am told that they
pronounce "Qais" more like "Qes" ('e' as in "bhes") and not
like "ai" in "bhaiNs".

Au contraire, I believe they pronounce it more like *Ghaes*!
Yes, Gh! Likewise, 'haqeeqat' becomes 'heGhiiGhet" ('e' as in
the English 'bed'). It seems that the (modern) native Persian
speaker thinks that the "'Ghaf' has the same pronunciation as
the 'Ghain'"!

Basically, we are much better off not trying to use the (modern)
Persian way of pronouncing Arabic/Persian words to determine
the correct *Urdu* way of saying the same words.

To be fair to Zafar sb, I don't think he suggested we do so.
I think he only said that the 'w' in Khwaab is ma'adoola [i.e.,
the "silent" waaw, which, as it happens, only occurs in Persian],
SO we must take the hint and make it silent when we pronounce
Kh[]aab. Gham-Kh[]aar, Kh[]ushi, Kh[]ursheed, Kh[]ud, etc.
In the strictest (pedantic) sense, Zafar sb is absolutely right --
the 'w' in these words must be silent.

However, personally, I think I stand a bit to the left of Zafar sb
in this regard. In our subcontinent the pronunciations of some
words have become (for whatever reason) 'modified' in such a
manner that what may once have been Ghalat (wrong) has now
become (almost, if not totally) saheeh (correct) and even faseeh
(polished), and I think it's time to consider whether it's not
okay to accept these pronunciations as 'also valid'. The
'do-not-omit-the-w-but-gently-glide-over-it' way of pronouncing
Kh(w)aab, Kh(w)aahish etc are good examples. Another case
in point is the word 'fizaa' -- the proper pronunciation is 'fazaa',
but ALL of our leading singers, including Rafi, Lata, Kishore,
Asha ... are guilty of saying, "fizaa". What're we going to do
-- throw out all these songs, or discredit all these singers'
pronunciations? :)

-UVR.

.

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