Re: Wise Intelligence (Attn Quest)

On Aug 24, 9:37 am, The Ranger <sedgwickave...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:30 pm, TJ Xenos <talvi...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Aug 24, 12:21 am, The Ranger <sedgwickave...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 24, 12:52 pm, suntzu

<sun...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The Ranger wrote:
On Aug 24, 4:55 am, beezer <beez...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
http://www.ballerstatus.com/article/editorialscolumns/2007/08/2947/in...

PRT frontman speaks sense and unity.

Pick your fights.

I like a lot of what he's saying there, but I think he skims over the
content differences too quickly. I'd rather hear someone rap about
"magical amulets, funny-colored weed, and how they'll take out any
mainstream or commercial rapper" than more of the same tired money and
violence rhymes.

yeah, that's fine to prefer one over the other, but that doesn't make
one more legit than the other. you may not like it as much, it may be
farther from what most people consider to be "objectively good"
(whatever that is, but that's a whole other thread), but that doesn't
kick it out of the genre.

Yeah, I wasn't kicking anything out of the genre. I'm not one of those
fools saying this or that isn't "real hiphop". I was just pointing out
that WI seemed to skim over the difference in lyrical content between
the mainstream and underground. I think the lyrics are the main thing
that seperates the fans. Underground kids will tend to like stuff that
sounds intellectual (even if it's not really) and despise raps about
guns, money and bitches.

Actually its the perception of the music that divides fans. As you
said they like stuff that "sounds" intellectual, as opposed to ***
that actually is intellectual. And I do not understand how anyone can
not like money or women, unless they're a monk.

Yeah, the perception. Whatever. I'm saying it's more about the lyrics
than it is about snaps vs snares.

Except the point that myself and wise are making is the only
difference lyrically is in the heads of kids who are trying to call
the other crew "not real hiphop".

And of course there's plenty of "underground" hiphop that dwells on
the same themes that a lot of the mainstream stuff does. Usually does
it much better in fact.

I call bull***.

That's funny because I was talking about the music that you listen to.
I've never heard of most of the stuff you talk about which means it's
probably not mainstream. From what I can gather almost no-one outside
the region it comes from has ever heard of most of that stuff. From
the little I've heard and the lines you quote, it sounds a lot more
insightful and deep than the mainstream hits that deal with similar
subject matter.

I'd suggest theres a large difference between "underground" music and
"regional" music. Underground music has the pretense of not wanting
to be successful (so long as they're still eating good off the
music). In other words, they want the perception of not being
successful.

If the latter is done with heart and insight, okay,
but most of the "mainstream" stuff I hear is just the same boring
***.

yeah, and maybe the mainstream's worse than the underground in this
respect, but i don't think by much. there's a lot of boring *** out
there, because not that many people are that original and entertaining.

Which is why I tend to always go back to my old "golden era" albums.
It was much easier to be original back then and rappers weren't too
tough to be entertainers.

You go back to them because of the place they have in your memory due
to when and where you heard them. Most of that *** sucks.

Except for the last sentence, you are right. But you can't deny that
being original (as far as lyrical content goes at least) gets more and
more difficult as time passes. It seems like everything's been said
before. When I was a youngster, that wasn't so much the case. I go
back to it because to me that's when hiphop was new and different and
interesting. I'm still open to listen to new music but very little
blows me away now. So I go back to the stuff that did.

What was original about hiphop in the 80s other than the sonic
aspects? NO ONE has ever talked on anything that hasnt been talked on
before. There was thousands of years of culture prior to hiphop. All
hiphop did was take what had already been siad and put a different
beat to it. A bunch of pretentious twats thought the ideas were what
made them original and not the context/sound, so when someone came and
did the same thing YET AGAIN with another different sound, they
complained about unoriginality. Quit fucking hating and stop acting
like you invented the wheel because you didn't.

Is society producing more thugs and drug dealers now than it was
in the eighties?

i don't think so. it seems like most studies are saying that violent
crime and drug use are both down in the last couple decades.

Right. So why are so many rappers claiming to be thugs and dealers
now? At the height of the crack epidemic you had all these different
styles sharing the limelight, so why now do the thugs get most of the
attention?

Because there was more money in drugs then, whereas now theres a
million more people in the game and too many snitches so getting out
of the drug game and into something else that you have some skill and
interest in (hello rapping) is a much better look.

So there's less money in drugs but more money in rapping about drugs.
What I'm saying is that while the drug problem has eased in society,
in hiphop its exposure has multiplied to the point where it eclipses
all other subject matter. It's ridiculous.

So it was better when everyone was closet junkies and drugs were taboo
is what you're saying? Just like tv was bettewr when the cleavers
slept in seperate beds and people pretended sex didnt happen? The
only difference is drugs have become much less taboo and no longer
turn one into an utter social pariah. In other words, people are able
to keep it more real now because there is less prejudice towards
them. MF doom doesnt rap about selling drugs because when he came up
that was considered as bad as being a racist.

besides that, drug dealers and the violence that surrounds them are the
result of a few decades of willful naivety and while full on
legalization wouldn't solve all our problems overnight. criminalization
is an obvious failure, and we could really do something significant
about violent crime, prison populations, and health in general if we
took a more scientific and compassionate (and less moralistic) approach
to drugs.

Or are we just seeing more rappers on those themes
because that's how you sell records. Or even worse, are people acting
like that because it's become cool to be a violent, misogynistic tool?

that last sentence sounds uncomfortably close to the arguments a lot of
misguided parents and teachers when i was a kid.

I don't know what it's like where you're from, but there are plenty of
kids in my neighbourhood hanging out in parks or on the street trying
to act like their favourite rapper. It wasn't like that 20 years ago.
Kids will be kids but when they are idolizing 50 instead of Chuck,
they are gonna act differently. There's a lot more at work than just
whose music they are listening to, of course. It's just one symptom of
how our society is self-destructing. But the world would be a slightly
better place if all those kids were listening to MF Doom instead.

Take the rose colored glasses off.

Why rose-coloured glasses? Kids imitate their role models. If they
think 50 cent is cool they're gonna act like thugs. If they were
looking up to Common instead, they'd be sitting in the park eating
guava and ***. I'm realistic and I realise that's never gonna happen.
I acknowledged that kids were doing the same thing back in the day
with NWA. But there was more diversity and some of those kids instead
of acting hard would be trying to do the running man.

Art imitates life, not the other way around. It was the same in the
80s. Its just easier to try to blame hiphop now because it allows the
opportunity for those with authority to place the onus elsewhere for
their failings and inability to solve problems that have existed since
the beginning of society.


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