Re: the N word

On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 01:36:36 +0100, "Wasteland Drifter"
<wasteland.drifter@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


No, but in the original post, Tim said that they were primarily using
it because they're into hip-hop and are hearing it in rap songs.

It's bigger than Hip Hop.


I was never disputing that fact.


This is not about you or me. This is about the world in general. Just
because you don't personally take offense doesn't mean that there
aren't people who do.

People get upset about all types of *** doesn't mean we have to pander to
every little thing... For example, I'm guessing arachnophobia is the most
common phobia, now does that mean that everyone who doesn't suffer an
irrational fear of spiders has to go and kill every spider in existance just
to please those who are scared?


No, but I wouldn't deliberately bring a spider into a room full of
people with that particular phobia either. And I certainly wouldn't
act completely clueless as to why they might be upset if I were to do
so.

The word '***' is being used in a positive context in this example, ***
anybody who takes it out of context that's their problem.

I've seen bullets fly over that one little word. "*** anybody who
takes it out of context" just doesn't fly in some circles of today's
society. It's much more serious than that for some people. .

If the kids have
no problem with it's usage and use it amongst themselves then why the hell
should anyone tell them it's 'wrong' for them to say it?


The may unknowingly say it around others who might have a very serious
problem with it.


For the record, I don't allow my students to address me or each other
as "dude" or "homie" or "bro" in the school setting either. That's
street language and it needs to stay in the street.

Forget all this 'street language' nonsense, this is a question of authority
and an example of something which you can use to exert authority over the
kids because it's seen as the 'right' thing to do despite NOBODY doing it.


I'm sorry but we're talking about a school setting, correct? I can't
just "forget all this street language".

Did you or anyone else see that episode of the Apprentice where the
young guy (Andy?) was talking to a business contact from the Dennis
Leary Foundation and he addressed her w/ "Yeah, Hi so and so. What's
Up?" during a business call?

Does anyone who did see remember what her reaction was to his use of
"street language" w/ her in that instance?

There are places where it's appropriate and places where it isn't and
kids need to know the difference.


It's not ok....but I fully realize that some probably do.

Why is it not right for them to use the English language?


silly question and I won't entertain it.

If your mother lets you cuss her out and cuss at your teachers as you
wish.....well, all I can say is that I guess it explain a lot about
you then.

What a load of contridictory bollocks...

Not only are you again giving words more power than they deserve but
you're also on some power trip because you're an adult and they're
'just' kids.


Having discipline and showing respect is not "power tripping".

This is not respect you are talking about. Respect does not involve
restricting your speech to please those around you in order not to get a
beating or detention. That's fear, just in the same way if I was in
Guantanamo Bay I'd say Dubya was the greatest man ever to walk the Earth,
not because I respect the people asking me questions, not because I have an
ounce of respect for Dubya but purely because of fear.


Fear is not my motivation for not cussing in front of my parents. I'm
an adult now and I still don't. I really have nothing to fear
anymore. I don't do it out of respect.

I may
use cuss words w/ my close friends and certain members of my family
(husband/brothers/cousins...generally, those who I consider my peers)
but I most certainly wouldn't cuss in front of my boss, my children
or my own father. That has nothing to do w/ them "power tripping"
over me. It's about me showing them the level of respect that they
are due.

Again, that's not respect. That's fear of what the consequences would be,
the reality probably is that they wouldn't give a *** but you fear that
your boss would sack you, your kids would look down on you and that your
father (in the past) would beat you and not talk to you.


See above.


First, I didn't say that they weren't allowed to like it. I said that
I don't let them sing it in school. And no, it's not simply because
"I said so".

Yes it is. You're trying to dictate which songs they like.

No, I'm dictacting what is done ***in school***. They can like
whatever songs they want to on their own time at home with their
parents.

They aren't going
to randomly sing songs they don't like but YOU find the content of the songs
they do like to be 'inappropriate' for them therefore they can't sing them.


They can't sing it ***in school***. They can do whatever they want to
once they leave to go home w/ their parents.

It's because when you listen to the lyrics, the song is
truthfully not appropriate for young children.

So you are trying to 'protect their innocence'.


Not so much "their" innocence, because my students (being older)
already lost it. The school yard has all grades in it and the younger
kids tend to look up to the older ones and follow their lead. It
would be nice if the older ones try to set good examples.


Now, if they hear it
in the street or if their parents let them hear it at home, that's
their business....but while they are in school, it's not appropriate.

Why is the schoolyard any different from anywhere else?


Because it's school property.

Oh save it. "Innocence"...please. The school that I work in had 4
instances of oral sex, one pregnancy and one pregnancy scare this past
year. Thank god, none in my class.....but the mere fact that these
issues are now coming up in **elementary schools** is just plain
sad.

So stopping them singing about a guy wanting to *** is going to do what???


It will help to create a safe environment for children of all ages to
play in.

You're trying to preserve this false notion of innocence by restricting
their choice in music and their means of expressing their choice in music.

And this isn't a new phenomenon of teenage pregnancy... Again it's a false
idea of 'innocence' and past cases of cover-ups and 'shame'.


Teenaged? Try "tweener pregnancy". The girls in quiestion where 11
and 12 years old.

Sean Paul isn't responsible for this....but I think blind denial, a
lack of parental guidance and a lax attitude toward obvious
inappropriate behavior contributed to it.

and stopping kids singing songs ain't going to make a blind bit of
difference.


Probably not. But at least it will keep the playground *** A
PLAYGROUND***.



fake apology or not.....they knew enough to say it and knew enough to
know take it elsewhere because it doesn't belong in my class. That's
good enough for me for right now.

So all they learnt was that they can't be themselves around you, have to
limit their speech and not show appreciation for music because you might be
uptight about it's content.

Way to go teach... That's some mighty fine 'respect' they'll have for you...


Yes, I think it is. They learned how to speak properly and how to
conduct themselves with dignity. Maybe one of them will get to be on
the Apprentice someday and will already know that it's inappropriate
to say "What's Up?" when initially greeting a potential client.


...that's exactly what I advised him to do as well. You're advice
isn't any different from mine. Rather than "don't make a fuss or a
big deal", you said "have a word w/ them casually".

There's a big difference. I'm talking about it appearing as being a totally
random conversation - no "I'm an adult, you're a child" crap, no
repercussions and no fear of any repercussions.

The whole tone of everything you've said is that you'd pull them to one
side, tell them it was inappropriate and not allow any future usage which is
entirely different from just saying "Do you know some people get offended by
that word?" and sparking a conversation not pulling anyone aside and
potentially making it a group discussion where Tim would have the chance to
explain (without preaching) why some people don't like it, should the kids
need it - which I'm guessing they probably don't, and all views on it are
aired. If they choose to use it then that's the choice they have.


Free choice EXCEPT for when they are in school. In school, they need
to learn to follow the rules.

I think the situation in Australia
might be the same as here where '***' isn't used as much as it
appears to be used in the States, therefore there is a larger chance
of people taking offence. If you do it in a friendly, casual manner
you won't lose their respect and they won't think you're a herb.


..also basically what I said.

No you've said you don't allow it. Full stop. No questions asked. End of
subject.


No questions asked? Read my post again.

" I just take them aside for a minute and ask them a few
questions about the words and explain it to them. What the word(s)
actually means...why some people are offended by it, why it's not
appropriate for this (school) setting. etc."

Nowhere have I suggest the kids stop using the word nor have I suggested
instilling any fear... erm I mean... respect into the kids as a result of
them using it. The above statement just says that in Australia it may have a
higher chance of people misinterpreting the context in which the word is
being used than in America, which in order to stop unnecessary confrontation
would need to be thought of, if they don't mind being confronted by people
who take words out of context and get their knickers in a twist over them
then fine let the kids say what they want.


even if it's potentially to their detriment? I disagree.

That's about as much as you can do coz they'll still be saying it
regardless.
.

Quantcast