Re: The "Thought Crime bill" will become law if we don't stop it. Please pay attention to this one

DGDevin wrote:
"k sturm" <kasturm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:CXF_i.7881$3Z2.1430@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Do you actually believe that every phone call or e-mail or web-browsing session in the country is monitored by the govt.?

Yes. Did you watch the testimony of Mark Klein last week? He's the AT&T whistleblower who told Congress about the secret room and the equipment that they had him install and he says that every phone call, email, and web-browsing session is monitored, not just AT&T's customers, but everyone's.

It's a given in the intelligence community that the sheer volume of data collected by electronic means overwhelms the ability of intelligence agencies to even look at it much less analyze it. The govt. has had computers that scan large numbers of phone calls and so on going overseas for many years, the computers look for key words that will trigger closer attention, e.g. the mention of names of drug traffickers or terrorists. But the notion that every time we log on and go to Ben and Jerry's website an entry is made in our file somewhere in the bowels of Washington is silly, we're talking about many *billions* of phone calls and e-mails and web browser sessions every day. Do they have computers that look for patterns like a history of connections to Jihadist websites or a history of encrypted traffic to nations hostile to the U.S.? I wouldn't doubt it, but that's not the same thing as enormous buildings full of people reading all our e-mail and listening to all our calls and so on.

I'd also make the point that anyone who considers e-mail a secure form of communication is ill-informed. Years ago some e-mail software used to pop up warning messages that e-mail could easily be read by other than the intended recipient because it hopped between so many carriers and systems that there was no guarantee of privacy. It's also old news that the technology to detect patterns of net traffic to bust people engaged in "file sharing" (i.e. music or movie theft) is not only real but used every day, again any expectation of privacy in that regard is ill-founded.

I'm a bit concerned about Mr. Klein too, having read his so-called memo I'm seeing some discordant notes. Why was he so up to speed on the NSA? I've read articles about them too, but I couldn't have told you they are legally limited to overseas activity, he knew that the first time one of them supposedly walked in the door waving his credentials. Would the NSA really do these installations so casually, hi I'm from the NSA and I'm hear to talk to talk to Bob about setting up the secret room? Would AT&T really have unclassified documents detailing the installations kicking around where people with nothing to do with the program would have access to them? Klein's accusations should certainly concern us and I hope Congress looks into them seriously, but it would sure be nice to get confirmation from others.

Please don't get me wrong, I hope Congress does not block the lawsuits aimed at exposing what AT&T and other companies have done, if they've broken the law that needs to come out. I probably would not allow unlimited damage awards against them if only because the entire telecom industry being gutted by such awards would serve no useful purpose, but they certainly deserve to feel the sting. Unfortunately it looks like the Dems are going to go along with some sort of immunity for these companies, and if they win the White House next year you can bet this program won't be discontinued either. I do not like warrantless searches, I do not think the govt. needs to snoop into our phone calls or e-mails just on spec, and if they've been doing that then they and the telecom companies need to be burned over it. However I probably don't have a problem with them noting who hangs out on Jihadist websites or sends encrypted files to suspected terrorists in Krapistan and tracking that back even if one end of the string is in the U.S., that sort of thing I'd kind of like them to keep an eye on, if they'd done that before 9/11 maybe the WTC would still be there and the U.S. wouldn't be in Iraq today.


I used that same argument about 20 years ago...a friend of mine said that he was worried about the CIA/FBI files that the government had on each US individual. Being in the computer industry for the feds I told him that even if the CIA/FBI had a file on each individual it would be impossible to search them. Well guess what..it is very possible now. So searching and reading each e-mail/tel call may not be easy now I have no doubt that it will be simple in several years.

The question later will be...they can't search and decode every MP3 and picture file....and technology and spying march on together.

--peace--
stu
.

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