Re: Conservative Deadheads? Veteran Deadheads? NRA Member/Hunting Deadheads?


"Richard Morris" <jrmorris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Darren E. Mason" <stcalvin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Richard Morris" <jrmorris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Do you want a society in which everyone contributes *in proportion to
their ability to do so*, that does not put up barriers for certain
people and classes of people, and that helps people who are genuinely
down on their luck,
-or-
Do you want a society that protects the wealthy and assists them in
accruing greater wealth while the middle class carries the primary
burden?


This is a false choice.

The first option you provide is dangerously close to

"Each according to his means to each according to their needs."

Actually, you misquoted, but that is irrelevant because it is nowhere
close to what I said above.

Means, ability, in today's day and age, essentially the same thing. I can
give to charity
or be taxed by the govt, based on my means, which can then purchase the
labor of someone
with the ability that another person needs.

What bothers me more about your description of, what I assume you think is a
better
society, is such vague terms as "in proportion of their ability to do so",
"barriers", and
"down on their luck". Who decides such things? You? Me?

We already have a progressive tax structure. I would prefer a flat tax
rate on income,
be it from capital gains, interest, or income from labor, with a
reasonable deduction for
self, dependents, mortgage interest, and health expenditures. Those that
earn more,
pay more. Those that earn less, pay less. My guess is that your
"details" are not my
"details".

Yes, I am sure that you prefer a flat tax, since it favors the wealthy.
Let's use a 10 percent tax to make the math easy. Do you really think
that the $1,500 that someone who makes $15,000 per year would pay in taxes
is equivalent to the $30,000 per year that the person making $300,000 per
year would pay?

No. Actually, $30,000 is 20 times MORE than $1500. So the person with more
"ability to pay" pays 20 times more dollars than the person with less
ability to pay.
That the tax is thet same % of their income does not bother me at all. And
my salary
is a hell of a lot closer to $15000 than $300000.

Or, more to the point, do you see a difference between $13,500 and
$270,000?

Sure. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Apparently the market
values the
labor of the person making $300000/year more than the person making
$15000/year.
For example, it doesn't bother me that I have friends that make 10x-20x what
I make a year.
Good for them. They also have more people working for them and some of them
employ a number of people.


I believe in equality of opportunity. Not equality of outcome.

No argument there ... which is why I very carefully addressed the issue as
making sure that no barriers exist to prevent anyone from experiencing
those opportunities. Do you think we have that situation now?

Yes. As good as it will ever get. There will always be trust fund babies
and your
Paris Hilton types. And folks who worked their way through college without
a dime
from Mom and Dad (me) and folks who have had educations or businesses handed
to them by their relatives. No one ever said life is fair. And I don't
think it is the job
of the goverment to make "life fair". Initiative, effort, choices, and luck
all impact the
"outcome" that we see everyday on the streets.



The second option does not currently exist, especially when you consider
how much
income tax revenue is paid by the "wealthy" (top income quintile?) versus
how
much of the income tax is paid for by the "middle class" (middle income
quintile?).

I would suspect that the middle class is larger that the middle quintile
... probably more like the second, third and fourth quintiles combined.

Do you have any stats regarding income growth say for the top ten percent
over the last ten years? You might find them revealing. Here is some
information for the last 20 years:

http://www.cbpp.org/4-23-02sfp-pr.htm


Again, it doesn't bother me. The wealthy employ most everyone else. What
is more important,
I believe, is that the upper 50% of wage earners in this country pay over
95% of the income taxes.
(federal stats - 2004).

Seems that we have achieved the second of the above alternatives, does it
not?

Nope.

:)

DM


.

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