Re: (NDC) Why should *I* be worried about NSA wire tapping?


Bob wrote:
Ray wrote:
Octopus Ride wrote:
"Steve Terry" <ruthanne@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e438ie$ajg$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Octopus Ride" <fakeaddress@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message:

Well, I meant hiding out, getting away from all the BS, and focusing on
tamer pursuits like trying out new bean varities and rebuilding bedroom
walls.
I understand that he grew hemp on his plantation. Did he ever smoke the
Mary Jane?
Its highly doubtful. Madeira was the drug of choice for his set.

Jefferson was way into French wine. He brewed beer too.

These
people wrote about everything in their letters, and no book I've read has
excerpted anything any of them wrote that mentioned smoking the herb.

I've never read that either. (And industrial-grade hemp, which is what
I'm guessing he grew, is too low in THC to get high from anyway).

I'm convinced he fucked teenaged slaves, though. Even carted the by-now
famous one across the ocean to France at one point, to the horror of Abigail
Adams, who had to watch over the then 14 year old for a period, as the poor
kid was unable to adequately perform her duties of watching over the younger
kids.

That Jefferson had a long-term sexual relationship with Sally Hemmings
is now proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and there is good reason to
assume that their relationship probably started while they were in
France and she was 14 (Jefferson was in his early 40s).

I have not read anything that would indicate that he was sexually
involved with any other slave however.

And FWIW Hemmings, who was 3/4ths white (and by some accounts looked
entirely white), was likely the half-sister of (and likely resembled)
Jefferson's deceased wife, who died when Jefferson was in his late 30s.

But despite their suspicions, the puritanical, anti-slavery Adamses
continued their friendship with Jefferson until the big political break, and
then resumed it again during their golden years.

I don't recall reading that the Adamses suspected Jefferson's
involvment with Hemmings before the big political break (and before the
Jefferson/Hemmings relationship was 'outed' in the press) - where did
you read that?

Franklin totally ignored most of his family, and basically gave them up for
a life of lechery in France......

Franklin certainly loved women and they loved him too. In his younger
bachelor days Franklin got around, even fathering at least one child
before marriage - him son William, whom he raised and was close to
until the war. (During the war William became a tory - Franklin
essentially disowned him after that.) And Franklin pretty-much
abandoned his wife (again - he'd done so previously when he went to
London for several years) when he went to France for several years to
serve as an American diplomat. (It was during this time that Franklin
secured the French alliance against the British - without that the
American revolution would have been doomed.) And in France Franklin
was adored by the society women (and pretty-much everyone else, FTM)
and he hooked up with a libertine social crowd and made some close
female friends in that crowd. However from what I have read while
there are some fliratious and suggestive letters there is no evidence
or consensus that Franklin ever cheated on his wife, in France or
otherwise.

These guys were pretty wacky, in addition to being giants. They would
scoff in disbelief at an impeachment based on a BJ.

Indeed.

Ray

Ray stop listening to pundits and start thinking....

LOL... Yeah, I never read or think for myself - eveyrthing I wrote
above and in general here I have been spoonfed from the "fair and
balanced" pundits at Fox News. ###

Clinton was
impeached for committing a crime... Its called perjury....I wish it had
not happened, but it did. He lied under oath. It doesnot matter about
what he lied...He knowingly lied UNDER OATH. It may have been a partisan
investigation, but that does not mattr....HE LIED UNDER OATH.

Gee, there's an ironic coincidence - that sounds exactly like something
that someone who listened to Fox News pundits and didn't think for
himself would say.

You keep saying things as if they have definitive value to the issue at
hand. Clinton may have lied under oath, but the relevant question at
issue here isn't whether he lied under oath but instead: Does lying
about consenual oral sex under oath rise to the level of a high crime
or misdemeanor" that the Founding Fathers would have regarded as an
impeachable offense? And as someone who had read multiple bios of most
of our most significant founding fathers (ok I confess: I lied above
about getting my info only from media pundits), I agree with
Toad/EBGH/OctoRide - no they would have instead scoff in disbelief and
disgust.

Why? Because Clinton's dissembling about a blow job during that
partisan witch hunt had nothing to do with his performance in office as
president, and moreover it wasn't even perjury - a perjury conviction
requires that the testimony be material to the case at hand, which this
testimony was not [1]. Thankfully, enough members of the Senate were
able to keep a level head on this point, which is why, even though
Clinton was impeached in the House along party lines, the Senate did
not convict and remove him from office. And based on the bios oand
other information I have read I believe the Founding Fathers (Hamiliton
and Jefferson, BTW, were at the center of the first and second sex
scandles of major US leaders) would have done the same.

HTH,
Ray

[1]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/akakatext021399.htm

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