Re: Easy process


"Michael Mossey" <michaelmossey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1138386975.348608.49200@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Steve Latham wrote:
>> "Michael Mossey" <michaelmossey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:1138342187.066738.228670@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >
>> > Steve Latham wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> I've got a similar story: we had a guest composer come in a visit with a
>> premiere of her new work by our new music ensemble. They started
>> rehearsal,
>> played the first note, and she stopped them (granted they were playing it
>> wrong). After about 20 minutes of not getting through the first bar, one
>> of
>> the players finally said "why don't we play the whole thing through to
>> get a
>> feel for the piece, and then come back and work on the details?". She
>> agreed
>> (but reluctantly, as she made some comments to me about them - I was just
>> the sound guy, so she loved me - I just pressed play before they began!).
>> So
>> in the performance, it happens, they ask her to come up and take a bow -
>> she
>> comes up on stage and starts talking to the percussionist about all of
>> the
>> stuff he did wrong while the audience is applauding!
>
> Yikes! I would say that this is out of touch with reality, for example
> the reality that the audience probably enjoyed it. In the end, that's
> all we are asking.

I would agree. While I believe it's OK for a composer to write something
that may be seen as "unplayable" by the proponents of the status quo (which
usually turns out to be playable anyway), I think this shows that she needs
a better method of communicating with performers.

[snip]

>> You know - I remember this from my own lessons - I would play a piece for
>> weeks, and one week I might miss one note, and the teacher would put a
>> red
>> mark on the page. First off, I hated people marking up my books (an AR
>> thing),
>
> What is AR? I would hate that as an OCD thing.

Anal Retentive. Close to OCD in many ways :-)

>
>> and it told me that she wasn't paying any attention to what I was
>> doing, becuase if she had, she'd know that that was a one off mistake -
>> I'd
>> understand if I always forgot to play some note sharp every time
>> thorough.
>> But I agree totally with what you're saying. Correct it once - if it
>> keeps
>> coming back, let them get through the piece and then go back and fine
>> tune -
>> or else they never get past measure 1.
>
> And I have enjoyed employing this same technique is composing and
> computer programming.. just let myself make mistakes or write imperfect
> things in the first stage, and just keep moving in order to focus on
> the big picture.

Well, that's what drafts ar for. Sometimes it's more important to get the
"plot" down, and then you can go back and fill in (or correct) details.

>
> Not only can the details be worked out later, there is a real joy in
> seeing how easily they work themselves out, if you can be in touch with
> the real process involved.

Total agreement - but again, not only for correcting details, but filling in
of detail during the writing process.

>
> For example, if I was teaching a piano student who got a note wrong
> consistently, I would probably help them discover the underlying
> pattern.. the habit of movement, or thought.. that makes this happen. I
> would not, hopefully, just command them to start producing the right
> note.

Wise beyond measure. Treating the disease, not the symptom!

[snip]

> Right. And in the end, *any* performance will have wrong notes.. unless
> you are one of the gods of music. But we still enjoy them.

OK, another story: American Brass Quintet performed here recently. Did not
hear a single mistake (I'm the recording engineer, so I kind of pay
attention). There are of course things they criticise themselves for, like
playing a passage a little slow, but no wrong notes (even on horn!!!!!). And
that is rare. Nakamatsu is probably one of the few others I can recall being
practically perfect. But I agree, a wrong note here or there will not spoil
a performance, until it becomes a nuisance. We had Paul Badura-Skoda, who's
quite old now (though this has been maybe 3 or 4 years ago), and he played
The Waldstein, and just couldn't hack the triplets in the second theme area
at the tempo he was playing. Still a fabulous performance, but that section
was obvious enough to even the casual listener that I heard a littl buzz
about it afterward.


>
> Yeah, I've been perfectionist so compromise is hard for me, but this is
> an example of what I'm learning to accept. You might notice my internet
> posts have a lot of spelling and grammatical errors these days,

Doo Thay? Mine are rampant!!!!!

but I
> don't correct them as part of my "modus operandi" to teach myself to
> accept non-perfection.

Well you know what? I have no problem with correcting them. But I think
there's an important distinction in lack of perfection that comes about
through uninteded acts (a typo) and those due to ignorance (like not knowing
how to spell a word). So I try to use correct (ish) grammar and spelling,
and accept typos and typos, but I'm also aware that if the style is
conversational, it doesn't have to be perfect.

[snip].
>
> Let me clarify.. I shouldn't say *every* teacher. In fact, the
> composition lessons I had from Matt Fields were nice.. he focused on
> the big picture, and when he did point out some detail, it was always a
> simple and straightforward one to correct, nothing that interfered with
> the flow of the process.

That's because he knows what he's doing. But others unfortunately may not.

>
>>
>> Well, there has to be a small measure. I mean, we do want to play the
>> correct notes. I understand that if you say "root" in Australia, you can
>> offend someone, so if you are working within a given context, there can
>> be
>> very right and wrong (or appropriate and inappropriate) things.
>
> That's part of the paradox. There is right and wrong. A Buddhist would
> say we need "discernment".. we need to understand the consequences of
> our actions. In composing, we need to understand what sounds delight us
> and how to obtain those.

Oh, absolutely. I think the right or wrong is simply, if you want X effect,
you may use Y technique to obtain it. But in some cases, trying to use M
technique might not provide X results, and if you're unaware of the
existence of Y, you're doing yourself a disservice.

>
> The idea is drop the urgency to obtain rightness immediately.

Sure.

This can
> feel very much like giving up hope

Hmmm. I don't really feel that way about it.

---but the secret (don't tell anyone)
> is that life has a way of working out the details, given that you
> really love what you are doing and really care about getting the best
> result. Wrongness leads to rightness, when the love is there.

Philosophical, but true.

Best,
Steve


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Bangalore meet: RMIMers humbled, humiliated and put to shame
    ... composer called Taj Ahmed Khan. ... very warm recordings from the 1960s, ...
    (rec.music.indian.misc)
  • Re: neutralizing pivot tones
    ... make sure what I want is what I want and I'm not making excuses. ... a composer;/ ... meter but then it will sound very simple and if I try to do something ...
    (rec.music.theory)
  • Re: Is Modern Times Another Con Job? (Why?)
    ... musical tradition, say, the Chinese, the Indian, the Persian, etc. ... But now the valuation becomes a matter of one's cultural ... I was going to vote for Tansen, the Moghul composer of some of Northern ... <snip truthiness snip snip> ...
    (rec.music.dylan)
  • Re: Is Modern Times Another Con Job? (Why?)
    ... musical tradition, say, the Chinese, the Indian, the Persian, etc. ... I was going to vote for Tansen, the Moghul composer of some of Northern ... Tuesdays,Thursdays and Saturdays, but I see Lord Jackson is retreating. ... <snip truthiness snip snip> ...
    (rec.music.dylan)
  • Re: String Quartet Icons on Line
    ... I often use that term in a semi-deragatory manner, ... More than just "from the Parlor" I think. ... recognize when the composer is crafting things towards their ...
    (rec.music.compose)