conventions was: definition, etc.

bgranat wrote:


> I've certainly learned that some folks aren't using language in a way
> that follows the conventions of the language, and therefore meaningful
> discussion is well nigh impossible.


On the other hand, you might also say that if everybody would be using language in exactly the same way, discussion wouldn't be possible, since there would be no difference - only differences of opinion, where opinion would be understood as something merely private and personal, something you can only express but not really discuss, because the difference of opinion would be external to language which has no such differences. All opinion would be neutralized by saying, well that's only your point of view.

Clearly, I think the idea of 'conventions' of language is overrated. In relatively unimportant matters (bicycles, etc) conventions are fine. In bigger, more complex, important matters, conventions are generally extremely vague and therefore to assign them authority potentially dangerous. Music isn't even the most complex case. Take 'freedom' - the word gets bandied about a lot by politicians, usually so that they can invade a country with a lot of oil in it, but I don't think it has ever been given a single, simple, clear and effective meaning that everybody would find suits their views. The present new freedom of the Iraqi people for example is quite a technical matter, given that they hardly dare leave their houses to go to the market. Terrorism is another such word that comes in handy to mean, by convention, whatever the politican needs it to mean - most of the time it means "You're in some sort of big danger but I can help you".

Is music that dissimilar? We're mostly well-educated here and we understand that there's a huge amount of music in the world, a huge variety of ways of looking at it, of understanding what music is and is supposed to do, from pleasing the gods to dancing to up to understand the beauty of the world. I think most of us here are quite cultured. But not everybody is aware of this richness and values it, and big industrial interests are keen on limiting the meaning of the word 'music', because that will make selling the same tripe over and over much easier. The media and entertainment industry won't stop anybody doing weird things directly, but it will push towards marginalization of anything that it can't use or that has the power to promise other ways of looking at the world. Well that's their business - largely, the business of producing waste, throwaway music that you can sell hundreds of times (and classical music has become quite incorporated in this setup). But they do get to determine what 'convention' is in the process. We might want to ask ourselves whether we want to support that project or not.

BTW - I'm stopping posts to any 'definition' thread now.

--
samuel
MP3's of my works and performances:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sqv/

Nobody out there but us. And I can never figure out who that was or will be, much less is.

	- Charles Bernstein
.

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