Re: The opposite..

fields wrote:

Peter T. Daniels wrote:
fields wrote:
Peter T. Daniels wrote:
fields wrote:
PTD wrote:
> fields wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not convinced that you mean "devolved".
> >
> > > Why not? It got semantically bleached (that's a technical term) from a
> > > highly specific sense to a general (one might say debased) one -- the
> > > opposite of evolution.
> >
> > But evolution is not a directed process, and the opposite of evolution
> is stasis.
>
> Are you claiming that semantic bleaching is a "directed process,"
> whatever that would be?

No, I made no representations on the topic of "semantic bleaching" at all.
Then what were you referring to as not being a directed process?
Evolution, like I said.

Biological evolution was never under consideration, so your entire
quasi-learned disquisition is irrelevant. (Readers of this newsgroup are
quite familiar with your squid-like habit of throwing up a smokescreen
of elaborate discussions of something completely irrelevant to the
topic, to cover up the fact that you made a mistake.)
Evolution is still not a directed process.

And neither is semantic bleaching, so your remarks remain completely out
of order.

Exactly wrong: My remarks are a reply to your claim, quoted above, that
"devolved" means the opposite of evolution.

No, I couldn't have claimed that; "devolved" could be the opposite of
"evolved," or "devolution" could be the opposite of "evolution," but a
participle can't be the opposite of a noun.

Biological evolution almost always results in increased complexity --
except in such odd cases as eyeless cave fish and nearly organless
parasites -- and semantic bleaching is a loss of complexity; hence the
aptness of the word "devolution."

> And no, if evolution is a net decrease in entropy, then its opposite is
> not stasis, but a net increase in entropy.
> --
> Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx

This last statement is worth saving, but I'm not sure whether you
realize the level of humor involved.

You have a choice now. Either rely upon your use of the conditional and
admit that this was irrelevant to my statement, semantically equivalent
to "If evolution is pizza with green olives then its opposite is pizza
with black olives", or accept a failing grade for the day in biology,
physics, and lexicography. The former is the more honorable stance.
I'm not concerned with relevance to _your_ statement, only to my
statement that the meaning of "fascism" devolved from something highly
specific to something highly general. If you don't see the connection
between entropy and specificity, then you've not understood the
applications of the concept of entropy that have been made in
information theory.

The word "devolved" here of course has nothing at all to do with the
word "evolved".

Of course not. It's a _different_ prefix placed on the _same_ root.

As is "Matrimony" and "Patrimony", just for starters. Irrelevant.

Exactly. You chose to start an entire irrelevant thread about biological
evolution by failing to understand that words have meanings other than
those used by scientist-specialists.

And no, "matrimony" and "patrimony" do not contain different prefixes
placed on the same root. I have warned you countless times about
pretending you know anything about linguistics.

I'm quite aware of information theory, thank you very much--I use it
professionally. Evolution is just change and has nothing to do with
getting more or less specific, either.

A net decrease in entropy is an imaginary beast trotted out by
creationists as a wishful attempt to use their misunderstanding of
thermodynamics to argue against biology. Local temporary decreases in
the entropy of a system are always driven by a net increase in the
entropy of that system's surroundings.
Claude Shannon was a creationist?
No, Claude Shannon's writings have only to do with passing a signal
through a noisy channel, not with evolution of the channel nor the message.

So you pretend that "evolution" doesn't have an ordinary meaning either!

Next you'll be telling us that you can't determine your weight using a
scale, because a scale is a sequence of notes!

Or that one must always say "mass" instead of "weight" ...

Nonsense, Peter.

Yes, you spoke nonsense when you denied that "evolution" and
"devolution," in ordinary contemporary English, are not opposites.

Evolution does not mean a net decrease in entropy in any case, and is
completely neutral on the topic of entropy. Evolution is just change.
The specific change meant in biology is change in the genetic make-up
and patterns of genetic exchange of a population, across
generations--sometimes leading to two or more sub-populations which no
longer exchange genetic materials with each other Evolution includes
"simplifications" like the formation of the simple chambers of the
nautilus from the incredibly detailed interlinked chambers of ammonites
(e.g. http://www.twoguysfossils.com/images/amm_onstand19.jpg,
http://tellmewhereonearth.com/Web%20Pages/Pendants/Pendants%20Photos/ammonitecanada1.JPG).

Yes, biology uses the word devolution, to mean the degeneration of a
structure within a single living organism. Outside of biology, it means
inheritance, delegation, or simply passage through time. Its
introduction into biology is exactly the semantic change you seem to be
so keen to tell us about. But it isn't the opposite of evolution, and
the sense in which you tried to define it is just evolution.

The opposite of evolution is lack of change, i.e. stasis, and the
observation of this polarity is generally attributed to Stephen Jay
Gould s.v. "punctuated equilibrium".
Then I'd recommend that you, too, look in an ordinary desk dictionary to
discover the current ordinary meaning of "devolution."
4 entries found for Devolution.
dev·o·lu·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dv-lshn, dv-)
n.
A passing down or descent through successive stages of time or a process.
Transference, as of rights or qualities, to a successor.
Delegation of authority or duties to a subordinate or substitute.
A transfer of powers from a central government to local units.
Biology. Degeneration.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Late Latin dvolti, dvoltin-, from Latin dvoltus, past participle of
dvolvere, to roll down, fall to. See devolve.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
devo·lution·ary (-sh-nr) adj.
devo·lution·ist n.

[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

Main Entry: de·vo·lu·tion
Pronunciation: "de-v&-'lü-sh&n, "dE-
Function: noun
: the transfer (as of rights, powers, property, or responsibility) to
another

Source: Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law, © 1996 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

Devolution

n 1: the process of declining from a higher to a lower level of
effective power or vitality or essential quality [syn: degeneration]
[ant: development] 2: the delegation of authority (especially from a
central to a regional government) [syn: devolvement]

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

Devolution

devolution: in CancerWEB's On-line Medical Dictionary

Source: On-line Medical Dictionary, © 1997-98 Academic Medical
Publishing & CancerWEB

Perform a new search, or try your search for "Devolution" at:

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Thesaurus.com - Search for synonyms and antonyms

Peter: you just flunked biology, thermodynamics, lexicography AND
information theory. The definition of entropy in information theory is
identical to that in thermodynamics, just for a hint.

Yet you didn't bother to look in Merriam-Webster's 10th (or 11th)
Collegiate Dictionary, as I did.

You pretend that looking up a technical term in a specialist dictionary
will get you the non-technical meaning of a word. Congratulations, it's
the exact opposite of what most crackpots do with technical terminology!

Peter, you crackpot! I just quoted in full the definition in the most
non-technical dictionary of English around: Dictionary.COM!

If so, you didn't credit it above.

Whatever you quoted, it is incomplete; it does not include the full
entry from the 10th Collegiate (let alone the 11th Collegiate).

Please slow down and stick to your specialties.

Which include linguistics and lexicography ...

Oh, and don't tailgate.

Follow the two-second rule.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@xxxxxxx
.

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