Re: OT View From the UK: Outrage Over Plans To Build Library Next To Sarah Palin

On Aug 22, 2:00 am, EG <edop...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 22, 12:38 am, M forever <ms1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Aug 22, 12:32 am, EG <edop...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 21, 10:15 pm, mark <markstenr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 21, 6:39 pm, EG <edop...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Progressive people who support science, technology
and freedom should condemn building mosques.

Sorry, but we live in the USA where religious freedom is one of the
bedrocks of our Constitution.

Belief in god is stupid and irrational. It's also a protected right
under our Constitution. If people want to waste money erecting
churches and mosques, they're allowed to do so. They're even allowed
to go around trying to spread the lunacy among the rationalists.

So, no, I won't condemn the building of a mosque or a church or a
political headquarters. That's what being a progressive is about.

I'd like religion to go away, and I believe it will, though not in my
lifetime. But I will not trash our Constitution to make my hopes for
the end of religion become a reality.

Nonsense!

Condemning the mosque and opposing its building is my constitutional
right.
It is also what's being progressive means.

It has nothing to do with freedom of religion.
They CAN build the bloody thing and I CAN oppose it.

Furthermore, Islam is not a tolerant religion and it seeks to convert
all non-islamic people to Islam.
We cannot be tolerant of intolerance.
They can practice their crap in the privacy of their homes,
but a mosque is no longer a private home.
It is a public place, and if they preach hatred in the mosque,
they should be dealt with harshly.

How should they be dealt with? And should the same treatment also be
given to those "good Christians" who preach hatred in their churches
and "tea party" meetings?

In this context, what is your attitude towards religion in general,
not just Islam, and the various forms of mainstream Christianity
practiced in the US in particular?

Not all religions are the same.
The Jews do not seek to impose Judaism on non-Jews.

No, they don't want that, and that's because their religion tells them
they are "god's chosen people" and their holy books even celebrate
genocide, raping and plundering of those who are not "god's chosen
people".

Same for Buddhism and Hinduism.

You obviously don't know that, but many wars have been fought "in the
name of the Buddha", too, as absurd as they may seem - but not any
more absurd than the countless wars fought "in the name of Jesus".
Hinduism is a really nasty religion with a horrible caste system.

Mainstream Christianity has mostly adapted to modern
american society and american Christians do not represent
a threat to non-Christians.

LOL. Of course they do. They massively meddle in political affairs and
they do try to impose their way of life on other people.

No reason to get the tea party into the discussion.
It has nothing to do with Christianity and a lot to do with
limiting the role of government.

Funny though that pretty much all of those people are fundamentalist
white Christians. And a lot of their meetings take place in churches
and are organized in church groups. Odd, isn't it? After all, it's
only about "limiting the role of government".

So why didn't those people cry out in anger when during the former
administration, "the government" ballooned its spending to epic
proportions and when they started wasting enormous amounts of money on
pointless wars? In which, coincidentally, according to commander-in-
chief Bush, "God is on our side"...You may not understand that, but
that enormous inflated and ineffective military machine is also run by
"the government" and with tax money. It is "socialized defense". Or
rather, "socialized warmongering".

Islam is unique today in its viciousness, its ambition to
conquer the world and in its barbarism.

Funny though, hmmm, last time I checked, whose armies were in whose
countries killing whose civilians?

I bet you really miss the Soviets. They were such a more convenient
enemy picture to have, weren't they?

The most extreme lunatics on the Christian right are
enlightened people when you compare them to Islamists.
They do not kill or genitally mutilate their daughters,
they don't practice anything as medieval and horrific as the sharia,
etc.

Well, Jews genitally mutilate their males - isn't that the same thing?
Sexual abuse of children, as we have seen, is very widespread among
some Christian groups, in particularly the Catholics. The most
Christian country in the Western hemisphere, the US, is also the one
which imprisones and executes by far the most people - not just in
absolute, but also in per capita numbers. They outdo many Muslim
countries in those respects.
So where is the difference?

Stop pretending that Islam is ok. The more you try to
accommodate muslims, the more vicious they will be.

Thanks for these illuminating and clarifying statements.

I never "pretended that Islam is OK". That statement, unfortunately,
reveals you as a religious bigot who thinks some religions (especially
the one which happens to be his, coincidentally) are OK while some
others aren't. And wile it may be true that some religious communities
are more extreme, more fundamentalist and more backwards, that has
generally less to do with the given religion than with the location
and social environment.

There are both Muslim and Jewish fanatics in Israel because of the
political situation there. There are more violent Muslims in general
in the Near East because of the situation there, too, a product of
centuries of colonial meddling by Western powers which is modified
form is still going on. Still, I have known a lot of really nice
people from Muslim backgrounds and at the same time, also a lot of
really nastily fanatical people from Christian and jewish backgrounds.

The difference wasn't from what background they came, but whether or
not they allowed that background to determine their mindset and
actions. Moderate Muslims are just as harmless as moderate Christians.
Fanatics of all flavors are equally dangerous.

I am against religious influence in the public sphere - period - and I
don't sit in judgment over who is OK and who isn't. Basically, they
are all dangerous because they are all superstitions and tools to
indoctrinate and manipulate people.

So you have no business applying to people's sense of progressivenss
and rationality. It's just a facade behind which you hide your own
religious bigotry.
Nice try though!

Thanks for your detailed answers anyway - but you didn't answer
myother question - so how should the Muslims be "dealt with"?
.

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