Re: A new appreciation of Deacon

Frank Berger wrote:
HvT wrote:
Frank Berger wrote:
HvT wrote:
Frank Berger wrote:
HvT wrote:
Gerard wrote:
wagnerfan wrote:
"Bob Harper" <bob.harper@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:5jW_m.417856$8m4.123470@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
wagnerfan wrote:
I have been watching with the same fascination I have whilst
passing a car accident the recent postings appreciating the
accomplishments of Deacon while trying to balance it with the
racist, bigoted, horrible, jealous old fraud we have been
reading here for a long time -my, my how people do forget.
Can this person be the same one who called a member here who
comes from mixed religions a "mongrel"?? Can this paragon of
artistic integrity be the same person who rated the exact
same performance with two totally different opinions based
solely on who he thought the artists were???? I don't know or
particularly care what he did in the record industry -
sometimes negative personal qualities are so awful they wipe
out for me any such accomplishments but it is important that
we get the whole person, don't you think???Not to worry,
there will many of us ready to put things back in the proper
perspective here. Wagner Fan
Get over it. Tom's sometimes peculiar and always opinionated.
So what? This group would be poorer without him. If you don't
understand that, then it's *you* who has a problem. I say this
knowing full well that I find him insufferable at times, and
that I disagree with his musical judgments on many occasions,
but again, so what? Stop being a prig.

Bob Harper


"Tom's sometimes peculiar and always opinionated"

If you read my posting, you fool, you would see that his
musical judgements mean little to me. If you feel that a
person who calls someone out for being an antisemitic racist a
"prig", then baby, I'm not the one with the problem. I am
going to keep calling him out for it, over and over so if you
don't like it , don't read me --- or go to hell. Wagner Fan

Hm, I see. Is that what you wanted to say and to start a thread
about a participant here?

One cannot expect too much from someone who calls others
antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan.

Henk

Now wait a second. Do you doubt that Deacon *is* an anti-semite
(defined as normal people do, not as he does)? His Jew-baiting is
legendary. Or is that you recognize that he is, but somehow it's
not Kosher to label him such. Do you have to kill 6 million Jews
to be called an anti-semite?
It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, but no
apparently no individual is an anti-semite.

Anti-semitic racism refers to theories about race. TD obviously
doesn't support these theories.

Perhaps he does, perhaps he doesn't. It's not obvious.


Anti-semitism tout court has a very wide use these days.

I looked up "tout court" and still don't understand your intent.

Here in the Netherlands some of those who
publicly disagree with Israel's treatment of Palestinians have been
called anti-semites.

Ah yes, the old "You can't criticize Israel's policies without being
called an anti-semite." It's time to retire that one, Henk. You
see, if it's illegitimate to consider whether a particular person's
anti-Israel attitude is motivated by anti-Semitism, then the must be
no anti-Semites. As I said before, everyone knows there
anti-Semitism exists, but there appear to be no actual anti-Semites.

You seem to be saying I shouldn't be concerened with a little
Jew-baiting because Deacon doesn't want all Jews exterminated.
Sorry, I can't accept that.

You believe that you have the right to consider whether someone who
criticizes Israel's politics is an anti-semite. No one says you don't
have that right. You even have the right to call someone an
anti-semite without any reason at all. However, I don't think that
it's helpful to inflate the definition of the term anti-semitism all
out of proportion (even to the extent that whenever you consider
someone's motivation, he or she is already guilty of anti-semitism -
for the simple reason that anti-semitism exists and that, therefore,
there must be anti-semites).

Sorry, your reasoning here is flawed. The very use of the word
"considering" in this context precludes there being a prior decision
that anti-semitism is present. When someone is fixated on Israel as
the perpetrator of all evil in the world, is it stretch to suspect
that anti-semitism is underlying it?

Since you used "considering" I decided to follow you. "Considering"
certainly precludes a prior decision that anti-semitism is present. So
there is no reason to suppose, as you did, that someone would call it
illegitimate. In my opinion it isn't even illegitimate to call someone
an anti-semite without any reason at all. I just believe that it isn't
helpful to stretch the meaning of the term anti-semitism.

I suppose that only Hamas and a few idiots believe Israel to be the
perpetrator of all evil in the world. And they are anti-semites in the
true sense of the word. Most critics of Israel aren't members of Hamas
or idiots. It's therefore quite a stretch to suspect that most if not
all critics of Israel are potenital anti-semites.

You don't like Jew-baiting. No one says you should. TD is too often
needlessly offensive. As far as I know you have no difficulty at all
in managing these situations, however unpleasant they are. Sometimes
I even have the impression that you are the tormentor (and loving
every moment of it) and TD the victim.

I resent that. I found my interaction with Deacon to be so painful
that I terminated it several years ago.

Hmmm. It has obviously escaped me that you have terminated your
discussions with TD and I can imagine that you resent the fact that this
isn't in your case as crystal clear as in the case of others.

Perhaps anti-semitism (tout court: without additional information or
qualifications like racist) is too serious a matter to misuse the
term referring to it.

Henk

You seem to find it difficult to condemn the misuse of the term
anti-semitism. I'd love to hear why. If you rather keep the true reasons
for yourself, I'll respect that.

Henk




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Relevant Pages

  • Re: A new appreciation of Deacon
    ... antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan. ... Do you doubt that Deacon *is* an anti-semite ... It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, ... anti-semite without any reason at all. ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: A new appreciation of Deacon
    ... Wagner Fan ... antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan. ... Do you doubt that Deacon *is* an anti-semite ... It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: A new appreciation of Deacon
    ... antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan. ... Do you doubt that Deacon *is* an anti-semite ... It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, ... anti-semite without any reason at all. ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: A new appreciation of Deacon
    ... antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan. ... It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, ... anti-semite without any reason at all. ... Most critics of Israel aren't members of Hamas ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)
  • Re: A new appreciation of Deacon
    ... passing a car accident the recent postings appreciating the ... antisemitic racists and himself a Wagner fan. ... Do you doubt that Deacon *is* an anti-semite ... It's funny how everyone will admit anti-semitism exists, ...
    (rec.music.classical.recordings)