Re: Immersing in Sinopoli's Mahler
- From: imperfection <ihateusingemail@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2009 20:14:47 -0700 (PDT)
On Mar 28, 7:31 pm, John_Hause...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Mar 24, 11:41 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:38 pm, imperfection <ihateusingem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:29 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:19 pm, imperfection <ihateusingem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:12 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:41 pm, M forever <ms1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 10:34 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 7:07 pm, M forever <ms1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 10:02 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 6:52 pm, M forever <ms1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 9:44 pm, jrsnfld <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 24, 5:08 pm, imperfection <ihateusingem...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
... many
tone colours are present where I have not previously heard them on any
other recording...
For me, that's at least 70 percent of the reason I like this set so
much. There is a richness and mysterious colofulness about the sounds
that Sinopoli gets. Not so mysterious, I guess--there are carefully
underlined details and wonderful balances yet in an aura of depth and
splendor, not dry highlighting. Sinopoli's cycle is a very carefully,
consistently evoked world of dramatic color
But the other 30 percent is equally important. For Rattle's set is
another that consistently pleases the ear with distinctive color.
It is? I never noticed. I do not find much pleasing or otherwise
really interesting about the CBSO's thinnish, plasticky sound. It's
all well prepared and played and a testimony to Rattle's abilities as
a Kapellmeister, but it doesn't interest me much.
Color is about the only thing interesting in the Rattle set. Take that
away and you have very little, IMHO. I agree the sound is somewhat
thinnish (they sounded that way live as well, but I guess I should
blame the hall--they're home is supposedly excellent).
What does that have to do with the thin sound?
The hall (in Washington, D.C.) was an aside about how they sounded
when I heard them, that's all. A vague reference to the thread about
the Concertgebouw and how orchestras from good halls sound on tour....
Not sure what
you mean by "plasticky". "Plastic" means flexible.
It does? Seriously?
Yes...the ability to moulded to any shape. From dictionary.com:
Origin:
1625–35; 1900–10 for def. 1; < L plasticus that may be molded < Gk
plastikós. See -plast, -ic
The meaning of "artificial" or "inhuman" or machine-made or phony is,
in my experience, a very rather rare usage of "plastic", even less
common with the "y" ending.
--Jeff
I meant as in like a cheaply made, plasticky piece of equipment, for
instance. Just not particularly high quality.
Oh. Well, I haven't heard the word used that way without an object in
hand that makes the irony apparent. I guess what this means is that I
don't see the recording as "cheaply made" or "low quality." Last time
I listened I rather liked the recording quality of the EMI series and
Rattle's orchestra, even as I recognize the huge difference with
Sinopoli's orchestra.
--Jeff
I too do not like Rattle's Mahler cycle much. They say that Rattle is
on the Bernstein vein with ultra high tensions and emotionalism, but
the thin sound of the recordings really detract from the experience.
That, and I think Bernstein is the more enjoyable interpreter when one
is looking for ultra-emotional Mahler. The DG set has great sound,
which helps, too.
Hmmm. I don't hear much "emotionalism" and "ultra-high tension" in
Rattle. Not that everybody seems bored, but it's so much fussier about
details and "listen to that balance or instrumentation!" and less
concerned with making big moments fit into a larger story line the way
Bernstein does. I like the sounds coming out of the orchestra.
I really do think that whatever thinness one hears in these EMI
productions has to do with Rattle's real preference for transparency,
rather than some mistake on the part of the engineers. There's
certainly not a beefy low end in that orchestra and I don't think
that's a bad thing, but it is very different than most recordings.
But now I'm interested to try a few minutes of this set again to check
my impressions, and then compare to the Bournemouth and Berlin Mahler
recordings Rattle has made.
--Jeff
Oh right, do you have to turn the volume knob way up to hear details
with your copy of the Rattle cycle? I don't know why but it seems like
everything is played at pianissimo if I don't my stereo way up. It's
the opposite of Chailly's cycle, where I can keep the knob at 20% and
my desk is already shaking at the climaxes.
Yes, I think that's a fair statement. I probably turn up the CBSO/EMI
recordings to get the sound to "bloom" properly. Once I do, they start
to sound much better, somewhat fuller yet detailed, but still kind of
smooth.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
To mention Simon Rattle's interpretations in the same sentence with
Scherchen (and even Rosbaud) is patently ridiculous. Rattle only
offers on the surface interpretations (you can turn the volume up full
or even try to crawl into the speakers!). But back to the matters at
hand. In conversation with a friend I once mentioned that the only
"complete" set of Mahler symphonies I would like to have is Sinopoli.
My friend gave me the Sinopoli set as a Birthday gift. Now these are
commercial recordings. I was not disappointed in the set. I would
particularly recommend his traversal of the 5th, 6th, and 7th
symphonies (what I would call Mahler's most neurotic/ambitious
strivings in the musical/sound realm). Quite satisfying (although my
live Boulez/NY Phil recording is my favorite). Again, with Mahler and
with any composer there RARELY is any definitive performance - BUT,
saying that, if you go for a complete set - GET SINOPOLI. Now, for 6
degrees of separation from the Brahms Requiem. Awhile ago there was a
posting about (and I paraphrase) "not getting the Brahms Requiem."
With me, I guess, it was about "not getting the Dvorak Stabat Mater."
With that, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND the Sinopoli version of this work.
Amazing (and Sinopoli's version of the Brahms is also top notch). I
recently received the Dvorak from Berkshire (spread out on 2 cds - a
bit of a gyp from DG but isn't that usually the case?). A wonderful
SLOOOOWWW performance rich in harmony and sadness. Go for it. Hauser
I wouldn't recommend the Sinopoli set to a beginner to Mahler though,
since it's often idiosyncratic and just too different from all the
others. I would recommend something like Kubelik for a Mahler
beginner. Otherwise, if you're an advance Mahlerite, of course
Sinopoli's is a fascinating set.
.
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