Re: Bruggen's Paris Beethoven, 2006

Simon Roberts wrote:
In article
<bef9ed9d-5c16-4280-86fb-0dd701d478e7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
Michael Schaffer says...

On Jan 15, 3:13=A0pm, Simon Roberts <s...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article
<a8682409-1a44-4545-824e-ccec47f92...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx=
.com>, Michael Schaffer says...



Br=3DFCggen plays Beethoven symphonies on basically baroque
instruments with baroque playing techniques and esthetics -
totally silly and totally pseudo.

Even assuming that you understand early 19th Century
style/instruments/performance practices better than Brueggen and
his musi= cians do

I am not assuming that.

Really? Then what's your basis for saying that his understanding of
HIP style is wrong and yours is right?

In fact, I am assuming that he knows much more
about that than I do. At least I would sincerely hope so. That
doesn't mean that I can't criticize what he does if I explain my
criticism. More or less all the performing artists who are
discussed in this newsgroup probably know - or should know - more
about th music they are playing than you or me. That doesn't mean
that we can't discuss what they are doing, does it?

Who said you can't?

It may not have occurred to you that Br=FCggen's approach may be
very conscious "branding" to create his own style and sound during
a period in which the market was completely oversaturated with lots
of period groups playing everything on period instruments.

Well, it's occurred to me that he succeeded in creating a distinctive
style/sound; so yes, it did also occur to me that this was likely not
accidental.

It is also very possible that he actually didn't do his homework.

Yes, it's possible.

He
used to be at home mostly in the baroque era and he wouldn't be the
first artist who excelled in one area (or era, in this case) and who
then thinks he can just do absolutely everything and that he doesn't
have to put the effort he put into what he did originally and what
brought him success into his new ventures.

Sure; but he's been conducting Mozart since the mid 70s and Beethoven
and Haydn since not long after (maybe both earlier, I'm not certain).
He may, of course, have made no efforts to learn about any of this
stuff in the past 30+ years, and may have refused to listen to any
criticism or suggestions.

and assuming that they use the "wrong" instruments (though my
understandi= ng of his orchestra is that its members change their
instruments in accordan= ce with the music they're playing), so
that the first half of your sentence is tr= ue, the conclusion
doesn't follow. =A0If it's OK to play Beethoven with
style/instruments
that are "too late", why is it "silly" to do so with
style/instruments th= at are "too early"?

I think it is silly because it completely turns the whole idea of
playing music on period instruments with period techniques on its
head and replaces it with a general somehow period, somehow
historical attitude which doesn't make sense. That's like restoring
old works of art with techniques and esthetic elements that weren't
used anymore at the time of their creation.

Assuming your premise is true, this only matters if you're concerned
with historical accuracy of some sort. What matters to me is not
whether what he does is historically accurate or apt (or however you
want to put it) but how the results sound.

=A0And pseudo-what, exactly?

Pseudo whatever you want to read into the term HIP: historical, more
or less "authentic", stylistically "correct", or at least *honestly*
and *sincerely* trying to approach these ideals, not just doing
something somehow different on somehow old instruments.

So, again, you *are* claiming to know more about HIP stuff than
Bruggen does. Not only that, but you know he's dishonest and
insincere!


Do you know if Michael's claim/assertion "Brüggen plays Beethoven symphonies on
basically baroque instruments
with baroque playing techniques and esthetics' is correct?


.

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