Re: Dowloads: Karajan and the NY Philharmonic

On Apr 2, 7:31 pm, "\"M.W. Kluge\"" <MWKl...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 1, 4:25 pm, "jrsn...@xxxxxxx" <jrsn...@xxxxxxx> wrote:



On Apr 1, 2:03 pm, Bob Lombard <thorsteinnos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
jrsn...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Apr 1, 12:13 pm, Dontaitchic...@xxxxxxx wrote:
On Apr 1, 1:48�pm, Paul Goldstein <pgold...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[snip]

As far as the supposedly atypical sound of the orchestra goes, I wonder how much
is attributable to the combination of the warm Carnegie Hall acoustics (I am
used to hearing the NYP through the unpleasant prism of Avery Fisher Hall
acoustics) and the bass-heavy, treble-attenuated profile of the recordings
themselves? �With so little treble information, it's hardly surprising that the
NYP sounds mellow and Karajanesque.
I am unable to listen to uploads/downloads here because of equipment
limitations, so I rely upon your evaluation of the sound as you
received it. I have not heard what was posted. I must say that I am
rather dismayed. My tapes have excellently balanced sound, with good
and accurate highs. They are not bass-heavy and treble-attenuated. I
can only think that something has happened in the upload process. My
comments about the Philharmonic sounding "Karajanesque" were based
upon what I have heard here from the original tapes. I regret that
what you downloaded sounds so bad and wish I could do something about
it, but I cannot -- as I had nothing to do with the uploading process.

Don Tait

I don't hear any flaw that one wouldn't normally associate with tape
copies of broadcast sound. The upload or digitization almost certainly
nothing to do with the sound quality in this case. And that quality is
fine to these ears conditioned on many hours listening to relatively
well-made cassette copies of relatively decent FM sound. I happen to
like that sort of sound more than the harshly lit, domestically
pressed lps one typically heard from Bernstein/NY in the ensuing
decade.

--Jeff

There may be some treble missing; if it's above 9HKz ...

Technically, that's 9 "HvKz", not "HKz"...;-)

I wouldn't know

anyway. What I hear is a blurring of detail that may be a '50s
engineering issue. It's a minor deficit in the Mozart, but pretty much
a killer for me in the Strauss. Without the instrumental details
there's no point in hearing it. This reads like a complaint, but I
intend it as a neutral comment - the listening cost me nothing but
time, and I've plenty of that.

I'm certainly not complaining about the sound, either, but I agree
with your assessment and Paul's. The sound probably seems dulled or
blurred to some ears--it does not have seem to convey the top end with
the clarity we hear in the best recordings. Like I said, I think the
degree to which this occurs is not surprising given the source. I do
not hear problems of this kind induced by the digitization and
compression. I suspect we hear almost exactly what Don has at home
(which is a heck of a great thing!).

Personally, I don't find much problem here. It sounds very fine by the
standards of the day and I hear a fair amount of detail, even in the
Strauss. Bringing out details in the massed passages of the Strauss
work is generally not easy in the hall, anyway. The last orchestra
that I heard play Strauss was generally a sludge of sound until the
music grew quieter.

Ironically, of course, Karajan's own DG recordings are often accused
of blurring details. Perhaps the conductor's hand is in this
discussion somewhere.

--Jeff-

I have heard a fair number of the tapes Don has from Leo Goldstein's
archive. These were recorded from WBBM-FM in Chicago, and are quite
superior to any AM sources of the era. WBBM broadcast the CBS network
signal with its inherent limitations, so these broadcasts are not
quite up to the standards heard on the New York FM broadcasts. They
do however as a rule sound very honest indeed. The network signal had
a step drop at around 7-8 kHz, but the signal does not fall off a
cliff like AM (this is apparent on a spectrum analyzer).

This is obviously not a huge limitation, it is just audible in direct
comparison with a fine New York FM source. And therein lies the rub.
Please do not nitpick this gift horse, folks. In thirty years of
collecting I have encountered a grand total of two (2) broadcast
source tapes that duplicated Leo Goldstein's and were in better
sound. These tapes provide an honest representation of what a
listener with high fidelity equipment would have heard over the air,
and are for the most part unique examples. How can you ask for
more?

Bear in mind that most CBS broadcast tapes were erased en masse in the
1960s, and Don's preservation of the Goldstein archive assumes even
more significance. A hearty Bravo to all involved.

Mark

Thank you for confirming what Paul and others observed, as well as for
giving some of the back story. Obviously the tapes are a treasure and
everyone who has posted here has expressed recognition of their value.
I doubt one could find more appreciative listeners.

--Jeff
.

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