Re: Why do you like Mozart's music?


Andrys Basten wrote:
> In article <dof68c01q9h@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
> Simon Roberts <sdsr@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> to Wayne's
> >>present-day cultural environment and how it might affect someone
> >>learning music coming from that environment, I'll just ask this: would
> >>you ask the same sort of question if I said that I thought that Alicia
> >>de Larrocha's hand-in-glove way with Albeniz's Iberia was at least in
> >>part because she was steeped in the environment that produced that
> >>work, and that it gave her a particular advantage over Hamelin (who was
> >>I think musically educated in Canada) in that music?
> >
> >Yes.
>
> What people are getting there is in a sort of
> natural-speak of rhythms and inflections that is
> not found in the general study of classical
> music from Germany/Austria/France/Russia etc.
>
> And her name is mentioned because she combines
> uncommon classical skills with a certain
> cultural immersion in the style of music making
> in her area.
>
>
> > Yes, I know the
> >>analogy is pretty crude and involves the overt nationalism of Albeniz
> >>as opposed to the less obvious national/local flavor of the three B's
> >>and Mozart and Haydn, et al.; but surely the idea is clear, no?
> >
> >I'm not sure how clear it is, but yes, I think I get your drift. It's certainly
> >a commonly held belief.
>
> For good reason.
>
> >
> >>I'm saying that I think it's obvious that, starting with the spoken
> >>local language, being around the artifacts and food and terrain and
> >>folk/popular music and customs and any other aspect of the environment
> >>you want to name that the composers were familiar with will give you a
> >>sort of total immersion experience that is different in kind than
> >>learning the music in a non-local way.
> >
> >Yes, I know that's what you're saying.
>
> Certainly makes some sense and this is David's
> original point, USED by Michael to proclaim he
> was raised EXACTLY as David thought was so important
> (natural, habitual, non-conscious soaking up and
> regurgitation of what is 'done' where you are)
> and YET despite his full immersion in that
> training he found HIP just as natural in other
> ways, while David disregards HIP entirely as
> something to be detested.

And wouldn't one think this would be extremely easy to understand? And
it is, of course. It just shows that people like David7 and Simon
Roberts can't have a real argument since they get so completely freaked
out by such a simple and logical argumentation.
Yes, it's much easier to insult the German as racist and superioritist
for simply saying that he happens to have a cultural background than to
admit one was wrong.
Even more ridiculous when you consider that David7 obviously doesn't
have a professional music background at all. Kind of when somebody who
doesn't even speak your language lectures about it, and then when you
say, "wait a moment, I have grown up speaking that language, and what
you said is not true", he accuses you to be a mean racist instead of
thinking for a moment and admitting that he maybe doesn't know as much
about the whole subject as he claims to. Sad.

> >>You don't need them. But if you do have them, it makes the education
> >>process regarding the performance of their music gain an extra
> >>dimension that it won't have otherwise, is the idea.
> >
> >I realize that. I'm just wondering exactly what that dimension is.
>
> A more remote passing down of "how to" from the Originals
> who taught their students who taught their students who
> taught their students, who are now all over the globe.
>
> It was David Gable's insistence that the breathed-in naturalness
> of this where it Formed and was Passed On was =Ruined= by those
> who actually thought they'd go back to Originals of the 17th
> and 18th C and see what THEY were saying to their students who
> said this to their students etc etc -- UNTIL the instruments changed
> so much and the halls got so Huge and the music composed
> correspondingly changed so much that the earlier methods no longer
> applied to current century's own music and then ironically this Later
> Style of musicmaking was applied to the 17th C and 18th C as
> now natural gospel according to David. (Breath) David became
> incredibly upset (endlessley) when people interested in earlier
> centuries' composers and what those composers heard, thought and
> taught, PASSED ON those earlier ideas to people living today.
>
> > Maybe it could be
> >>characterized as a sort of idigenous authenticity or something like
> >>that.
> >
> >I think that's how it is often characterized. I just don't find it very
> >enlightening or even meaningful, that's all. Aside from that, it's not clear
> >whether it's a necessary advantage (whatever "it" is).
>
> It's an advantage (for the highly skilled classical musician)
> when the rhythms and inflections of speech are mirrored in the
> music -- but that advantage can be overcome, as Michael pointed out,
> by those who study and are trained in those aspects and have the
> skills and natural ability to do it.
>
>
> - A
> --
> http://andrys1.blogspot.com

.

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