Re: Why do you like Mozart's music?

In article <MPG.1e13cca34f558204989fc6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Wayne Reimer
says...
>
>> In article <docqjd021lk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sdsr@xxxxxxxxxxx says...
>> In article <MPG.1e1224126b6360c989fbf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Wayne Reimer
>> says...
>> >
>> >In article <do97fb0vjb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, sdsr@xxxxxxxxxxx says...
>>>> In article <MPG.1e11843f17502bd0989fbc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Wayne Reimer
>> >> says...
>> >>
>> >> >But still, I'm curious about who Simon Roberts thinks are the
>> >> >equivalents in Philadelphia circa 1790 to Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven.
>> >>
>>>> ? I was responding to this portion, and this portion only, of Mr. Schaffer's
>> >> post:
>> >>
>> >Well, ok. And I think you were right in when you said the process
>> >itself was fairly similar in various cultural centers. I think his
>> >point, though, was that, if that learning process takes place in an
>> >environment that is steeped in the history that produced a major chunk
>> >of the canonical works, it is different in kind than going through the
>> >process in an environment that didn't, such as Philadelphia.
>>
>>Assuming you agree with that point, why do you think it's different "in kind?"
>> How do those differences actually manifest themselves? (I don't think it's
>>helpful to invoke such concepts as "steeped" without spelling out exactly what
>> that means.)
>
>I'm surprised at this - is "steeped" a hot-button word that I don't
>know about? At any rate, rather than going into what would have to be
>tiresome detail about the effect of local history might have on the
>present-day cultural environment and how it might affect someone
>learning music coming from that environment, I'll just ask this: would
>you ask the same sort of question if I said that I thought that Alicia
>de Larrocha's hand-in-glove way with Albeniz's Iberia was at least in
>part because she was steeped in the environment that produced that
>work, and that it gave her a particular advantage over Hamelin (who was
>I think musically educated in Canada) in that music?

Yes.

Yes, I know the
>analogy is pretty crude and involves the overt nationalism of Albeniz
>as opposed to the less obvious national/local flavor of the three B's
>and Mozart and Haydn, et al.; but surely the idea is clear, no?

I'm not sure how clear it is, but yes, I think I get your drift. It's certainly
a commonly held belief.

>I'm saying that I think it's obvious that, starting with the spoken
>local language, being around the artifacts and food and terrain and
>folk/popular music and customs and any other aspect of the environment
>you want to name that the composers were familiar with will give you a
>sort of total immersion experience that is different in kind than
>learning the music in a non-local way.

Yes, I know that's what you're saying.

>> So, in a
>> >roundabout way, I was pointing that out by asking who in Philadelphia
>> >would be the equivalent canonical composers, the ones which would help
>> >bring the Philadelphia experience into par with the Austro-German one;
>> >there are none, of course. Does that make any sense?
>>
>> Not really (maybe I should try again when I'm more alert). Why do you need
>> local canonical composers for the educational process in question?
>>
>You don't need them. But if you do have them, it makes the education
>process regarding the performance of their music gain an extra
>dimension that it won't have otherwise, is the idea.

I realize that. I'm just wondering exactly what that dimension is.

Maybe it could be
>characterized as a sort of idigenous authenticity or something like
>that.

I think that's how it is often characterized. I just don't find it very
enlightening or even meaningful, that's all. Aside from that, it's not clear
whether it's a necessary advantage (whatever "it" is). E.g., I don't think I've
heard a better performance of Elgar's Enigma Variations than Monteux's.... Do
you (or anyone else) find much, if any, correlation between how good a
performance is and the extent to which the interpreter(s) is/are "steeped"?

Simon

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