Re: Off topic: Oops



"Iain Neill Reid" <inr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dfq2og$69@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> In article <080920051439459352%owenx@xxxxxxxxx> Owen Hartnett
> <owenx@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>>In article <dfpqsm$stf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Iain Neill Reid
>><inr@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the local government screwed up badly - clearly there was a
>>> failure
>>> to allow sufficient time (and resources) for evacuation of those who
>>> ended up at the Superdome and the convention centre. And the stock of
>>> water and food was rossly inadequate. But that screw-up doesn't excuse
>>> the even worse screw-up of leaving those people there for 4 to 5
>>> days to wallow in their own filth. I don't know the proportionate
>>> blame between state and federal government here, but they're both
>>> accountable - FEMA particularly, since it's glorious leader remained
>>> oblivious of the existence of the convention centre despite a stream of
>>> reporters getting in there from day 2.
>>
>>I suspect Brown was far too busy trying to get things done, that he
>>didn't have time to watch TV reports. Somebody tripped up along the
>>line, I'll admit.
>
> Far from clear what the hell he was doing - his boss only seems to have
> time
> to read the newspapers.
>
>>
>>>
>>> But it should also be clear to you (let's talk about facts here, since
>>> Mr Berger was interested in those) that once the citizens out of the
>>> city,
>>> they need to be evacuated somewhere - you can't just dump them on the
>>> street. Now, in the first instance, that's the responsibility of
>>> state government. But it is should be obvious from where the evacuees
>>> (and
>>> that's a perfectly reasonable word - children in Britain were evacuated
>>> from the large cities to the country to avoid German bombs - they became
>>> evacues) ended up, that this is not something that Louisiana could deal
>>> ith itself. So that makes it a federal problem.
>>
>>And it's not a problem you can solve ahead of time. There's no
>>facility anywhere in the country that can immediately handle tens of
>>thousands of refugees safely on short notice.
>
> On the contrary, it's exactly the problem that should be solved
> ahead of time. There is no point in ordering a mandatory evacuation of
> people with no resources if you have nowhere to put them. That's a basic
> failing of the N'Orleans evacuation plan, far as I can see (although
> I admit I haven't read through it completely). Makes one wonder
> if there any such plans in hand for dealing with evacuees from, say,
> Detroit
> if dirty bomb were to go off there. You get the people out, then what?
>
>> Even the Astrodome had
>>to turn people away. I'd hazard a guess that part of the slow response
>>time was finding a place to put those people, and not repeat the same
>>problems the Superdome had.
>>>
>>> Plus there's the fact that several exercises beforehand (and FEMA was
>>> directly involved in those exercises, underlining the link to federal
>>> government) showed that at least 10% of the population of New Orleans
>>> was not going to leave when asked to (even required to). Dealing with
>>> those number sis way beyond the resources of a single city, and even a
>>> state -
>>> that's why you have a federal government.
>>
>>Are you suggesting that the federal government send in troops before
>>every hurricane-related evacuation to insure that the population move
>>out? I can't see why the federal government is required to force out
>>evacuees that refuse to go, particularly since the governor is ordering
>>the evacuation.
>
> Umm, no - where do you get that from? That's clearly a local law
> enforcement
> issue. I'm talking about dealing with search, rescue and supply in the
> immediate aftermath - trying to save the lives of those who, whether by
> choice or circumstance, are stuck in the city. Now, part of that is (we
> can now see confirmed) likely to be a security issue - and federal troops
> may well be required to support national guard (assuming you have
> some still here) in that area. Mainly I'm talking about FEMA doing some
> emergency management.
>
>>>
>>> And these issues should have been abundantly clear from the outset. But
>>> noody took the hurricane seriously enough - not at the local level, not
>>> at the state level, but most of all, not at the federal level, where
>>> it's
>>> quite clear that you have a total jackass in charge of FEMA, and every
>>> single high-level official was out of town, shopping or on holiday for
>>> what every scientific model predicted was going to be a devastating
>>> storm.
>>
>>Not that I personally think Condi Rice or Cheney could have done much
>>to staunch the broken levees, but being out of touch with these kind of
>>things do leave a bad political taste in the mouth. During the
>>Blizzard of '78, Providence Mayor Buddy Cianci (now in prison, by the
>>way) was stranded in Florida while Rhode Island Governor and rival J.
>>Joseph Garrahy made big political hay by appearing during the crisis
>>on TV in a folksy plaid shirt and activating the Emergency Broadcast
>>System.
>
> If you boss is in town and saying that this is a big issue, you
> had better prepare for it, then you might just take it a little more
> seriously. Definitely sounds as if Rumsfeldt should have been around,
> since
> the arrangement with DHS was that he (Rumsfeldt) had to personally approve
> any use of military resources (helicopters, ships) requested by DHS.
>
>
>>>
>>> But all of these distinctions between different levels of government
>>> are
>>> really pretty obscure for someone outside the states - which was my
>>> original
>>> point. This debacle is a black eye for the US in world opinion - and
>>> that's going to matter more and more.
>>
>>Frankly, I don't much care about what grades the world gives the US for
>>disaster relief, nor do I think it "matters" one whit. Other countries
>>have their own black eyes from history, and every country lives in a
>>glass house.
>
> Some have more windows than others
>
>
> Neill Reid
>
>>
>>-Owen

While we're on the subject - what plans have been made for San Francisco -
its only a matter of time for that city to be hit by a massive earthquake -
have any plans been made ??? At all????? Richard

>
>


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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Off topic: Oops
    ... >>> to allow sufficient time for evacuation of those who ... >>> ended up at the Superdome and the convention centre. ... >>> blame between state and federal government here, ... >>> that's why you have a federal government. ...
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  • Re: Off topic: Oops
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