Re: Good voice for bossa nova?
- From: nono <nigelinsouthamerica@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
First of all, thanks to Gerry and Mark for their answers.
I really like replies that aren't just wishy-washy but are technical
as well.
I have read the replies and have been thinking and applying them.
still haven't made any final conclusions.
It means what you like. Various styles and settings demand various
qualities. Bossa melodies can be quite complex, with significant and
quick interval skips. So the ability to easily nail a note rather than
endlessly singing a note and then sliding up or down to where the note
actual lives: that's important. Think Cher: she never hits a note but
slides endlessly up to the note. A useful technique especially for jazz
and blues, but also a ubiquitous cloak for inability.
i think some bossa melodies CAN be complex. i think its the same for
any jazz standards, some go up scalarly and some are quite complex in
that they have intervallic leaps. On those, i definitely have to
practice with my 'lalalala's' before i attach any lyrics to them when
i sing. A good ear is invaluable.
i agree when you slide, its a form of cheating when you do it not for
effect but for incompetence.
Other important considerations: A clear tone, not a raspy damaged
gargle. Alcione's "damage" doesn't count, because her phrasing,
precision and "sell" dominate all.
i heard gilberto's voice is kinda of harsh. i dont agree with it.
Joao provides no real diaphragm support. He is a "throat singer",
making no significant use of chest-resonance or his diaphragm to "push"
the tone through with even dynamics. Many females must use diagragm
support and chest resonance however, because throat-singing by women
has much less inherent tonal quality, I assume because of their
physical structure and size. A man can more easily sound "intimate and
personal"; think of a quiet Sinatra performance for example.
To me bossa is joao gilberto's voice, vinicius's poetry, and jobim's
melodies and harmony. i know there are other musicians with their
styles like baden powell, caymmi, etc but for me bossa are these three
guys.
i have heard that Joao's voice isn't the greatest. i didn't know he is
a throat singer. this is new and interesting. everytime i have seen
him sing it's with a microphone so maybe he doesn't really need to
project his voice. i know when i play its really soft and low without
any mic support.
as for dynamics, i havent really notice gilberto use dynamics, it
seems he stays clear from wide dynamic shifts. maybe this is a reason
he doesn't need any diaphragm support.
ofcourse he has inflections in his singing, its impossible not to
otherwise you will sound like a monotonous drone.
In reviewing a bunch of them just now I realize that my dictum
involving sliding into pitch can be a weapon with which I might assult
my own statements. Brazilians are noteworthy, singular really, in the
way they treat pitch. I've heard endlessly from Unitedstatesian
musicians that Brazilians sing flat. I think they do tend in that
direction during moments of speed or exuberance, but there is something
decidely Brazilian about this that doesn't necessarily detract from the
music. In the way a musician or vocalists can play just a little
"behind" the beat and in the process give an interpretation a certain
intimacy, "naturalness", or "conversational quality"--this too can be
applied to pitch, though with much more refined delicacy. A rigid
adherence to pitch and timing will make one sound operatic and
mechanical. Normally we don't harp about the time (in the US) the way
we do about pitch. I think Brazilians put them both in the same kettle
for pesonal application or disregard.
interesting. i still can't picture this in my head without an audible
example. anyone?
Mark's comment:
Joao Gilberto - a haunting, vibrato-less tone reminiscent
of Miles Davis' trumpet playing and Chet Baker's singing
this too is interesting. i never noted gilberto's lack of vibrato. i
myself sing most bossa standards with vibrato on sustained notes by
choice. i think it adds interest. i'll try singing without vibrato
next time(this too is hard to do as well) .
and thanks also mark for commenting that there are different voices
and different ways of singing bossa. i think, like me, people have one
type in mind or one in preference but its true bossa can be sung in
many ways like everything else. my preference would definitely for the
hush-speakeasy softness of joao gilberto.
and i disagree with the comments on Astrud. her voice is pretty and
perhaps she's not a great singer, but then again neither is joao. then
again neither is louis armstrong, or fred astaire or tom waits, but
their voice suit what they sing and they have a particularity with
their voice. and on strength of that, they have made an indelible
mark.
After all, I can't think of anyone else singing girl from ipanema but
astrud gilberto.
i think as long as you sing the notes in pitch, with a good rhythm and
add something special to the sauce, you're ok in my book. Good
technique such as dynamics, vibrato, scatting, is great flavor but the
basics is whats essential.
.
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