Re: Memories of John Lennon


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BlackMonk wrote:
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BlackMonk wrote:
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The point is, John did not want his new album to be a JohnandYoko
project, but the Yoke would not take no for an answer. Hey, she
knew
her albums would not sell orend up on the sale rack; she latched
herself on to John like wet toilet paper.


You're contradicting Fred Seaman's book, where he reports John as
being
enthusiastic about the duet concept.

I think you are incorrect on this point. If my memory is right, Seaman
reports that Yoko wore John down by nagging, nagging, nagging until he
gave in.


He quotes John as being enthusiastic about the concept, calling it a
"rock
and roll soap opera." Personally, I think the concept is the only thing
that
saves the album.

I like Double Fantasy, especially if one removes most of the Yoke's
songs.

Again, Fred's book makes clear that Yoko nagged her way onto the album.
Of course, once John gave into her, and even though it was not what he
wanted to do originally, he talked it up enthusiastically. I mean,
this was his first project in years and he was happy "to be back."


Once again, you're being selective. If someone says something that confirms
your preconceptions, you take it as complete and unchanging truth. If
someone says something that disagrees with your perceptions, you explain it
away.



Yoko was part of the album before Douglas was brought in. At his first
meeting, with Yoko (if it was supposed to be a John Lennon solo album,
why
would she be the one to hire the producer?), he was presented with demos
from both of them.

According to Douglas, Fred and other sources, you are incorrect. John
trusted Yoko to handle business things . . . . he got her involved in
getting a producer, getting a recording contract, etc. However,
initially John wanted it to be a John Lennon album. I suggest you
visit www.wfmu.org to see if the Douglas interview is still in the
archives.


Perhaps he wanted to do a solo album initially, but by the time Yoko talked
to Douglas (an artistic as well as business decision), it was a John and
Yoko album.

Why do you assume that it's impossible for John to have started with one
idea and then thought another was better?

Of course John could start with one idea and then change his mind.
However my point is based on what Douglas and Seaman have said, Yoko
"wheedled" her way onto the album. She nagged and nagged and nagged. I
read something by Seaman (I forget where) indicating they had arguments
over it.

Plus if you go to www.wfmu.com Douglas reported during one of his
interviews that John told him he was hoping Yoko would have a hit on
her own (such as with Walking on Thin Ice) because once she was
established in her own career, he was hoping to "get back together with
the boys."

It seems to me that John was often supporting Yoko's career yet
sacrificing his own. For example, in the Seaman book just before John's
death there was an article published in a local NY paper called Yoko
Only which, based on the description, was a PR piece to tout Yoko as an
individual talent. The point of the piece was that it was an artiacle
about Yoko without JOhn. John supported such things. However when he
wanted to do his own album, apart from Yoko, she would not let him. It
was one sided. Everything had to please and help Yoko, not the other
way around.

Yoko was hell bent on being famous. Remember her Playboy interview. She
admitted she separated from John because she was upset that she could
not be the breadwinner in the family. I mean, after all, who the hell
were the Beatles!!! (sarcasm) Why should John earn more money than she
did!!! (sarcasm) Can't the world see how much better the Yoke is?
(sarcasm) The Beatles were merely a trite boy toy band. (sarcasm)

This is also supported by the record deals . . . . major record
companies did not want Yoko and they were not going to sign a BIG money
deal for a John and Yoko project. That is why Double Fantasy was
released on Geffen records, a much smaller label. daonen ot want

Douglas explains that Yoko gave him the envelope with John's demos, and
THEN
(here is the juicy part) told Douglas that she intends on having a few
songs on the album too. However, Yoko expressly told Douglas "Don't
tell John." In other words, she told Douglas to deliberately lie to
John, if necessary, to keep John t he dark. Douglas reports that Yoko
then gave him demo, after demo, after demo. In other words, where John
gave Jack a few songs, Yoko gave him many, many songs. Clearly she saw
this as her big chance.


Please give me facts, not your interpretation of them presented as facts.
Unless you are Yoko, you're not qualified to speak for her.

This is from the Douglas interview. Just listen to it. I am not
interpreting the facts. Jack was there.

Douglas reports that he was very impressed with John's work.


No accounting for taste.

Lord, I can see we are miles apart on this. I see you are not a Lennon
fan. OH well.



Douglas then reports in that interview (I think) that at a later date,
arrangements were made for John and Douglas to meet at the house to
discuss the possible album. Douglas reports that when he was meeting
with John discussing the possible album, he knows that Yoko was in
another room nearby, spying on them. If I recall correctly, Douglas
suggests that he knew Yoko was listneing and wanted to make sure
Douglas did not tell John the truth, but John was unaware of his wife's
devious behavior.

So, to answer your question, Double Fantasty most certainly did NOT
start out as a John and Yoko project. According to Seaman and Douglas,
Yoko wheedled her way onto the album.


The problem with all this is that Seaman has John already considering it a
John and Yoko album before this meeting happened.

Can you quote a source please? Evidence?

Did you listen to the Douglas interview?

Is it true that The Yoke and The Leech are going to form a band in
order to try get the fame that they both crave and call the band "Dixie
Chicks"?

LOL

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Memories of John Lennon
    ... where he reports John as ... Fred's book makes clear that Yoko nagged her way onto the album. ... According to Douglas, Fred and other sources, you are incorrect. ...
    (rec.music.beatles)
  • Re: Memories of John Lennon
    ... where he reports John as ... Fred's book makes clear that Yoko nagged her way onto the album. ... According to Douglas, Fred and other sources, you are incorrect. ...
    (rec.music.beatles)
  • Re: Memories of John Lennon
    ... where he reports John as ... Fred's book makes clear that Yoko nagged her way onto the album. ... According to Douglas, Fred and other sources, you are incorrect. ...
    (rec.music.beatles)
  • Re: Memories of John Lennon
    ... where he reports John as ... Fred's book makes clear that Yoko nagged her way onto the album. ... According to Douglas, Fred and other sources, you are incorrect. ...
    (rec.music.beatles)
  • This Last RS interview is not in the RMB Archive(so now it is)
    ... JOHN LENNON INTERVIEW ... and Yoko has been telling me how their collaborative new ... album, Double Fantasy, came about: Last spring, John and their son, ... Lennon, based on Sanford Clark's 1956 song, "The Fool." ...
    (rec.music.beatles)
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