Re: Off Topic: Happy Holidays

Lookingglass wrote:
> <roger_pearse@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1135422295.635598.152030@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Lookingglass wrote:
> >> <roger_pearse@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> news:1135373946.900381.83250@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> > bessiejunejoadNOSPAM@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >> >> Well since Christmas really started from a pagan celebration of the
> >> >> return of the light and the sun god Mithra ...
> >> >
> >> > You might want to know that there is little or no evidence that Mithras
> >> > (sp) had any defined birthday in ancient mythology at all, hearsay
> >> > online notwithstanding.
> >>
> >> ...but it was celebrated at this time of the year.
> >
> > Actually there is little or no evidence in the historical record of
> > this either. The whole story is a myth.
>
> I did a "google".......... here is a quote from one source.

Just a general point: unless these reference ancient sources, they are
merely some of that 'hearsay online' I was referring to.

> "After his birth he challenged other forces when the world was young. His
> battle with the Sun resulted in the formation of a friendship and Mithras
> was bestowed with rays/crown of the Sun. Christians adopted this date as
> Christ's birthday in the Fourth century of the common era, according to Sir
> J.G. Frazer in his work The Golden Bough: "the festival of Christmas, which
> the church seems to have borrowed directly from its heathen rival. In the
> Julian Calendar, the 25th of December was reckoned as the winter solstice,
> and was regarded as the nativity of the Sun, because the day begins to
> lengthen and the power of the Sun increases from that turning point of the
> year. ... Mithras was regularly identified by his worshippers with the
> Sun... The [Christian] Gospels say nothing of the day of Christ's birth, and
> accordingly the early church did not celebrate it."

No ancient evidence offered, so we can dismiss this. NB: you didn't
indicate even the web source! <smile>

> The New Catholic Encyclopaedia records: "The birth of Christ was assigned
> the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January
> 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the Sun began its return to
> northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithras celebrated the Dies Natalis
> Solis Invicti (Birthday of the Invincible Sun). On December 25, 274, [Roman
> Emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the Sun God the principal patron of the
> Empire and dedicated a temple to Him in the Campus Martius. Christmas
> originated at a time when the cult of the Sun was particularly strong at
> Rome." (Vol. III, p.656, 1967 ed.)."

This also.

> I myself have not researched the subject of MITHRAS... what little I have
> read does support the fact that very little is known about this secret
> cult... but information can be deduced from the surviving archeological
> artifacts.

I agree. What I've done so far is to identify what I think is all the
mentions of the deity in ancient literature. It's here:

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras

What I haven't done is to recense the (much larger) inscriptional
material, since I have yet to see this. However I have many doubts
that this will contain the stuff necessary.

This is why I keep asking people (not you) "show me the evidence."
There does not seem to be any. I have a single possible reference
which links Mithras and 25 Dec, which I have not been able to check but
sounds dubious -- to an inscription in the CIL. No-one seems to know
of it.

> ...another quote...
>
> "Roman Mithras was perhaps the greatest rival to early Christianity for many
> reasons. As well as being a popular pagan religion practised by the Roman
> Army, Mithraism had many similarities to Christianity. Mithras was born of a
> virgin, remained celibate, his worship involving baptism, the partaking of
> bread marked with a cross and wine as sacrificial blood, held Sundays sacred
> and Mithras was born on 25th of December. Mithraist called themselves
> 'brother' and were led by a priest called 'father' (Pater). The symbol of
> the father were a staff, a hooked sword, a ring and hat.

I'm afraid this is all black propaganda. For instance, Mithras was
born of a ROCK! The majority of the other statements are likewise
distorted or misrepresented.

> These similarities frightened the early Christian leaders - that almost 500
> years before arrival of Christ all of the Christian mysteries were already
> known. To combat this, Christian writers said that the Devil knew of the
> coming of Christ in advance and had imitated them before they existed in
> order to denigrate them.

I happen to know the (unmentioned) source. But it involves a careless
misreading of a passage in Justin Martyr! This is why I think we need
to see those sources.

> As Christianity gained strength and became the
> formal religion of the Roman Empire, the 'Cult of Mithras' was one of the
> first pagan cults to come under attack in the fifth century; Temples of
> Mithras, like most other pagan Temples, were destroyed and Churches build on
> them."

I am not aware of any special treatment of Mithraea.

> ...manna for thought...

Absolutely. Be sceptical!

All the best,

Roger Pearse

.

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