Re: nbc Are white guys gonna vote for Hillary? nbc

angelagrace wrote:
Evolution wrote:

Thanks, Angela, you put all this very well.

No, thank you - it's good to find at least one person here who doesn't
think it's crazy and it's uncanny how we both have come to the same
place about her from different places. I was mad as hell when she
wouldn't come out emphatically against the war, and like Jack, was
plenty pissed she wouldn't say anything against what the Israelis were
doing to Lebanon last summer. But she's far from the only dem running
who did the exact same thing, except Kucinich.

That said, I've seen serious brilliance in feminist forums about
whether this is all an act on Hillary's part, and there's plenty of
intelligent people who don't think it's an act. We shall see.

I think it's an act. She doesn't look comfortable saying those things she has to say to get elected.


Thing is, she's the most
intelligent woman I have ever seen, and it's scary how political she's
become.

Yeah, it's just about downright disturbing to see someone like her
master such a sick game. Any intelligent person thinking it through
would have to question whether she's sold her soul. The thing that
gives me a reason to believe is that there's little doubt when she
graduated college and gave that valedictorian speech that she was
about as radical as they come, much more left than Bill ever thought
about being, and much smarter, too, in a very focused way. I know that
conventional wisdom has it that people mellow with age, but as Gloria
Steinem said, that's the default people - men; women tend to grow more
radical with age. It was certainly true of Kerry - I thought that
anyone who testified in Congress about the truth of what was going on
in Vietnam would never lose that kind of courage. I was wrong about
that. We'll see if I'm wrong about this, too, but I think there's a
completely different dynamic in play here.

Exactly. You have to look at where she came from. No one questions Romney or Rudy now saying they are anti-choice; it's just accepted that they have to change their position to get the nomination. But Hillary seems to have a strategy of running for the general election now; even though it pisses off some people and loses her some support in the primaries. We'll see if it pays off, but if it does, the repubs won't have much luck in portraying her as a liberal, their typical strategy, since she's running to the right of all the dems.


But the whole point is to get elected. It's hard enough
against the fucking crooked republicans. But she seems to be making the
moves necessary and straddling the line quite cleverly. She makes a
minor gaffe in the debate, and everyone jumps all over her. Sooo many
white males want her to take a dive. It's really funny. And it's true
what they say... that a woman has to be twice as good as a man to be
half as successful.

It was funny catching a snippet of the Today show this morning where
the dudes were taking Obama to task for not being tough enough to
smack Hillary down when he had the chance.

Now, see, that makes me respect him more. In fact, I wouldn't mind if he won, but I prefer Hillary. I would love to see him as VP... and I think he's running for it; he's being very careful not to piss her off, even though he points out differences.

I do like Edwards, but it's
sleazy what he did when she was on the ropes with the Spitzer driver
license thing that was too complex for the soundbite arena that are
these 'debates'. What she said made perfect sense, but he turned it
around on her to make her look two-faced in two minutes. He aint gonna
be running as veep again:}

I cannot stand that man. Love his wife, though, and if she weren't dying of cancer, I'd vote for her...


In fact, people like gumboman, whom I don't think is consciously sexist
at all, but is so smart he has probably never met a woman who is as
smart as him, is getting all bent out of shape about her, and saying
ridiculous things like she is no better or different than Giuliani on
the ME.

He thinks what he thinks and it isn't gonna change and that's fine, at
least he's taken issue with a political position she's actually taken
that he disagrees with.

But he isn't right about her...
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/iraq/

That's way more than the counterfeit left can
claim. I happened upon a lefty blog dominated by guys recently and one
of them was clearly projecting all his issues with women, probably his
ex-wife, onto Hillary. He was completely outraged, I *** you not,
that Hillary was a regular participant in the prayer breakfast where
the same sanctimonious hypocritical twits that pilloried Bill over his
sexual adventures in the Oval Office hold court. How humiliating for
Bill, and what kind of a cold, vindictive bitch would do such a thing!
How humiliating for Bill. I'm sure it was altogether pleasant for her
from start to finish. The things you read on the internets .....

Oh, yes, poor Bill... she drove him to cheat, no doubt...


It really makes me want her to be president even more. I have every
confidence that she will bring every Democratic principle to play once
she is elected, because she is a lifelong democrat. I have no doubt
she'll surround herself with competent people who can end this thing
without causing a bigger mess. Women are really good at cleaning up messes.

That's one of the biggest deals about her getting elected is the
similarly overqualified women she'll bring into government. Bye bye
Brownie and good riddance. If she's able to bring in enough women of
high caliber, it could change the weather and maybe just in time.

I can't wait... :)

Laurie


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