Re: (NBC) ipod or mp3 player?



Evan Z wrote:
Evolution wrote:



Evan Z wrote:

Evolution wrote:


On the other hand, music purchased from the iTunes store is proprietary in a specific way; the only mp3 player that it plays on is an iPod. You can still play it on any computer, and you can burn it to CD on any computer, but it'll only play on an iPod. So in a limited sense, it's proprietary.



That's what I mean.



*Everyone* does that; every online store that sells major label music is the same in this regard. It has nothing to do with Apple. But since that's been explained to you 12 times and you choose to ignore those explanations and repeat the criticism, and since the alternatives you're considering are equally if not more proprietary in their way, I'll stop trying to explain.


I'm not sure why you are upset.


Well you're right about that; there's no reason to get upset, and I don't think I am. As I said above, I've explained this several times in this thread. When you keep on ignoring the explanation and continue to repeat something that's not right, I start to get a headache.

Plus, I decided to wait until 10/2 to hear "Magic," and it's getting to me.

I'm simply trying to understand. So

you're saying that other on-line stores download music which plays only on Creative Labs mp3 players, or plays only on SanDisc mp3 players? If so, I misunderstood, and I agree that the iPod and iTunes is no more proprietary than other brands.


No, I'm not saying that. But I will try again. First, the iPod is no way proprietary. It plays standard mp3s and AACs in addition to stuff from Apple's iTunes store. You don't even need to use iTunes to use an iPod, though I wouldn't recommend trying it this way. It's not proprietary in any sense.

Second, all major-label music purchased online, from any store, has restrictions on it. The labels insist on those restrictions to prevent rampant piracy (it's working very well). In some cases, you don't get to own the music at all; you only listen on a subscription basis. In all of them, you can only burn the purchased music to CD so many times, or it'll only play on one or two computers, or something like that.

iTunes's version of these restrictions is, AFAIK, the lightest of any of the online sellers of major-label music. That's why I keep saying that to single out Apple as a proprietary monster is hard to fathom. They give consumers the *most* freedom to do what they want with their music of any of the online music stores.

The one thing you can't do with most music bought from iTunes is play it on non-iPod mp3 players. Actually, you can do this, but only with the extra step of burning and ripping it back to your hard drive.

This is a bummer for those very few people who want to buy from iTunes but use other players, but it's no different from the way other online stores operate. As far as I know (corrections welcome!), nothing that I buy from a non-Apple music store can play on an iPod. They're all restrictive in that sense. Stuff bought from Microsoft's music store can only play on the Zune. No other player. And stuff bought from WalMart won't play on the Zune.

If you buy a Creative player or a Sansa (I'm assuming) you'll be able to buy your music from more sources--including such fine corporate citizens as WalMart, Rhapsody/Real, MTV, etc. This is not "open" music; you'll be more restricted in what you can do with this music than you were with stuff bought from iTunes, and you won't be able to play it on iPods or Zunes. They're all proprietary; some of the stores happen to be proprietary in the same way.

Thank you for your explanation and sticking with this.

Okay, here's what I gather so far... I understand they all have restrictions on the music you download.

Microsoft's music store seems to be following the iTunes model, i.e. their music can only be played on their own hardware, the Zune? Walmart and others follow a model whereby they can be played on any brand's hardware except iPods? Correct?

If this is true, I would venture a guess that the reason Walmart's music can't be played on an iPod is because Apple made it that way, so you would have to use their iTunes? Because whatever format Walmart puts it in, evidently any other brand of mp3 player can play it, right? To me, when you consider both the iTunes and iPod, there is a more closed system than with any other except Microsoft/Zune, because in the other cases, the store is not directly associated with/restricted to a particular hardware. Correct?

One additional question, and I appreciate your patience. When you order some songs on-line from these other stores (not iTunes or Microsoft), does it load the music onto your mp3 player directly? I am assuming you don't actually get the mp3s because of the protection the Labels want.

Okay, two additional questions... With the stores where you "rent" the music, how do you play it? Can you burn it or just listen to it on your computer with a player they provide?


In a perfect world, stuff bought from any store would play on any player. Partly out of self-interest, Apple has called for the labels to allow this, but the labels (except for EMI, so far) have refused. The labels want music bought from iTunes to be more restricted, and they want Apple to charge higher prices. Apple's refused, and fortunately, because they're far and away the most popular seller of music online, they have, for the moment at least, the power to refuse.

See, this is where I think you lose me. There are two issues here, the copyright protection and the ability to play on all players. Apple may indeed want to make it so their iTunes can play on all players, since it's the leader in that market, but they also, correct me if I'm wrong, would still not allow other on-line stores' music to play on the iPod *unless they are in mp3 format*. The labels wanting copyright protection on the music doesn't seem to have anything to do with what hardware it will play on...

In other words, can there not be one open standard format whereby the music is protected, but any hardware which uses open standards can play it? I can't help but still feel that this issue is one of Apple's proprietary standards where they are using one format and the rest of the world is using another. How else to explain why other music downloads won't play on an iPod (but will play on *any* other brand of mp3 player) and iTunes won't play on other mp3 players?

I think that by suggesting that all music just get downloaded as mp3s (I think that's what you're implying Apple is asking for) they *seem* to be doing something user-friendly, while knowing it will never happen because the labels want the music protected. But what Apple *will* never do is use the same open standards as the rest of the world... either in their PCs or iPod.


Apple's out to make money like any corporation, but I don't see how it's music-selling practices are worse than any others. In a lot of ways, it's better, and it's generally much more customer-friendly. I think your animus is misplaced. The bad guys are the record labels, not Apple (or, for that matter, Microsoft or WalMart, though both are worse than Apple).

I don't think the labels are any worse than these other companies. If they allow people to download mp3s without protection, you know they will be traded around for free. And they're out to make money, too.

I'm not really picking on Apple. I don't think they're evil. It's just that I support open standards in hardware and software (because it leads to a healthy competition) and so I would not support a company which does not.


Since you said that you're not planning to buy online music anyway, and since the online music stores all play by more or less the same rules, I think you should make your choice based on other factors: price, ease of use, features, etc.

Well now, gumboman has gone and said the iPod has other features... :(

Laurie

-ez


--
DISCLAIMER: The above is my opinion, not fact, unless a link is provided. Any insult to your masculinity/femininity or religion is unintentional.

.

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