Re: Strong Words from Simmons...

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:35:44 -0500, themeekshallinherit@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(Spinal Kiss) wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 10:43:56 -0500, Broncofan <Broncofan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 19:08:24 -0500, themeekshallinherit@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(Spinal Kiss) wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:33:56 -0500, Broncofan <Broncofan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 07:21:38 -0500, themeekshallinherit@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(Spinal Kiss) wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:48:34 -0500, Broncofan <Broncofan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 11:30:06 -0500, themeekshallinherit@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
(Spinal Kiss) wrote:

On 15 Nov 2007 16:07:52 GMT, The Chris <cabell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071114/music_nm/kiss_dc_1


He's not wrong about what he's saying, and he's not the only musician
to come out with such thoughts. That being said, it's the record
company's ignorance, arrogance and years of systematic abuse of the
consumer that has them in the straights they are in today.





That isn't why the illegal downloading is happening.

How do you know all the forces at play regarding illegal downloading?




Because I read countless articles on it. I have seen many polls done
of college kids in many articles and they are the biggest percentage
of cheaters (illegal downloaders)

That is being
done by kids that weren't even alive when those years of record
company abuse happened. It's happening because it can be done without
getting caught and instead of paying 17 or 18 dollars, they pay 50
cents for a blank CD.

Again, how do you know? Also, what part of my original response did
you not understand when I spoke of giving value through fair pricing.

People steal.

Can the stroke be any broader?


People steal, BUT in this case it's even easier. You don't have to
physically take anything and run with it. See? This is just too easy
and it makes thieves out of people who otherwise wouldn't steal.


Also, they have a sense of entightlement like they are
"owed" something, which of course they aren't.

I guess it can...

They think the artists
are greedy and don't deserve any more money. That's bull***. It isn't
up to the consumer to determine how much money is enough.

So, the consumer doesn't drive the marketplace......

Every single
penny a musician gets paid from a CD is deserved and they are owed
that money. If not, then don't buy it.

Where in my original response do you see me focus on musicians as
opposed to the record companies. I never said that musicians don't
deserve their money. In fact, wouldn't it be nice if technology could
limit one download to a person and prohibit sharing. Why would an
artist use a record company to distribute his material and give them
any cut if he could market and distribute it himself?

you can't seperate the two. YES. Yes it would be nice. I wrote a big post on that. I hope you like it.
Some of the ideas were goofy, but I tried.



Technology will always trump technology, so you'll never see illegal
file sharing go away. What the industry needs to do is give these kids
a reason to buy something. Nice packaging at a fair price (no single
CD should price out at more than $7.99) seems logical.


You don't get to arbitrarily decide how much a CD is worth. That's not
up to you to decide. You don't get to determine how much you intend to
pay before it becomes acceptable to you to illegally download it. The
market decides what a fair price is, not you, and not some thief
either.

Yes I do. Everytime I pass on buying something... anything that I
don't feel is a good value, I've made a decision. Btw, that's exactly
the price I bought Scorpions Humanity Hour 1 for.



I wasn't refering to you passing on it. I mean you don't get to decide
how much you will pay BEFORE you illegally download it, not before you
pass on it. Passing on it is just fine. Really? That's cheap man.



My attitude is ambivalence towards the record companies. For decades
they raped us with extortionary pricing and had the balls to not see
the bomb in their laps when it was placed there. Now as an adult who
can afford to buy what I want, I find very little out there in the way
of quality product because labels do very little investing in bands
these days. It's really unfortunate but everyone loses, even the kids
downloading *** for free. How you ask? Just look at the quality of
music they're fed these days....

db



No one forced you to buy anything. Rape is the use of force. Unless
the record companies took your money against your will, you weren't
"raped".

Metaphor. Look it up. With everything stated why seize on that word?

If you made the decision to pay what you thought was an
unfair price, that's your problem and no one deserves to be "punished"
for that in the guise of illegal downloading.


Either pay the sticker price or do without. Period.

Can't argue that.

Btw, where do the downloads of boots that people pull from Megaupload
etc. come into play in your philosophy of right and wrong?

db


DB, that's a very easy answer.
You cannot steal it if it isn't for sale.
Those bootlegs aren't available for sale.
Kiss doesn't own them for the most part. They are audience recordings.
The ones that do get released to purchase, I buy. I own every single
kiss concert ever released by Kiss. Even though I already had the
kissology material, I still bought it when it came out.
I don't see how it can be wrong to download a bootleg that will never
be put on sale. Kiss can't lose money from downloads it if they don't
sell it. I have some of the reunion stuff that will be on kissology 3,
but I am still going to buy it.
good question though. I always pay when it's possible to do so.

I don't agree and I guarantee you that your boy Simmons wouldn't
either. Intellectual property, recorded and obtained in an illegal
manner is just that. Whether this property is available for sale or
not is irrelevant. Also, no need to state what you pay for, I'm not
questioning your personal actions.

db



I pay for everything that's for sale. EVERYTHING. Period. It most
certainly is relevant.

Explain please. How is it relevant in justifying the acquisition of
intellectual property in an illegal fashion, by using the example that
if someone buys the Kiss Alive box, it's okay to download 50 other
live recordings of the band that aren't officially for sale. Someone's
property is their property. You need to understand that it cannot be
both ways. In a legal setting, your rational would sink faster than
the Titanic.




Bull***. The only thing I download are bootlegs that aren't for sale.
Or demos that aren't released and never will be. You cannot steal
something that has no intrinsic value. Audience recordings cannot be
sold by the band because they don't own them and the quality makes
them unsellable.
It has nothing to do with both ways. selling bootlegs is illegal. NO
MONEY exchanges hands here. You simply cannot pay for them. If I did
pay, it would go to some random person, not kiss. Bootlegs have no
resale value. I am not talking bootlegs of official product. Like
Largo 79, NOT those. The ones I am talking about simply aren't good
enough to be sold.
Every official kiss product (video or cd) I own and paid for.





Going back to the original comments, Gene is upset because technology
bit the record companies in the ass and now he has no way to guarantee
that he'll get his money. He is not wrong. He *is* misguided to shoot
any new business models in the foot though because, there are artists
who are young and hungry and do want money but are not soley driven by
it and the technology will not revert to what it was 15 years ago.

Gene shoots his mouth off without offering a solution. Anyone could've
told the record companies that mp3s would be the downfall of the
record industry's cash cow. What would've really been impressive is if
Gene came up with a way to prevent what he forsaw, or parted with some
of his cash to pay someone to come up with an idea toprevent it for
himself and future generations of musicians.

db


I made a post with a lot of solutions. At least I tried to.
One of them might work.
.