Re: Surveillance in a Free Society (Long)

On Mon, 11 May 2009 22:23:30 -0500, Chuck Rhode
<CRhode@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, 11 May 2009 23:43:30 +0000, Calgary wrote:

So given that there are a variety of ways to track a person's
actions, where do you draw the line. Is it ok to track a person
through the use of their credit or debit cards but not through a
gps? What about telephone records? Should the cops be able to use
your cell phone to trace your travels?

I don't see the point.

My point was there are so many ways one could perceive themselves as
being tracked not just by the government but by private organizations
too. I am told it is not difficult to track ones movements on the web.
Our usenet activities are archived and publicly available. Is that so
much different than tracking your vehicle. Our purchases are tracked
by mass marketers through a variety of customer cards or points cards.
Once facial recognition is combined with cameras monitoring public
places, our movements will be even easier to track.

Red light cameras and speed cameras monitor our highways and provide
all the evidence required to levy fines for traffic infractions. Take
this technology one step further. Add hundreds more cameras and set
them up to recognize license plate numbers. If that information is fed
into a computer and the cops are wanting to trace your movements all
they would have to do is run a search on your license number.

It will become too easy to erode our privacy and I fear our right to
privacy will erode just as easily.

There may be exceptional cases, but requiring
the police to obtain warrants in rare circumstances won't likely
overwhelm the courts.

As the future unfolds new technologies will provide a multitude of
methods to track all of us. It's not reasonable to expect a judge to
provide a warrant each and every time these technologies are used. Nor
is it reasonable to expect the courts to quickly render a decision on
the application of every new technology as it goes live.

OTOH, your parents *do* have something to say about how you use their
credit card, their phones, and their cars, so these forms of
surveillance are legitimately made available to genuine account
holders.

Would your opinion on that change if the minor in question had their
own job, earned their own money and established their own bank
accounts and cards? Is a parent's right to invade a dependant minor's
privacy unlimited? I have a feeling the liberal courts would have a
field day with that question.

How have your courts ruled on using those technologies for tracking
and tracing?

You mean financial transactions, call-detail reports, and wiretaps on
cell phones. My understanding is that all of that still requires a
court order.

I don't know your system or laws but I was under the impression
telephone records and credit card transactions were available to the
police without a warrant.

Here in Canada we have no rights so it is less of an issue, but in
your corner of the world it might be too much to expect the founders
of your constitution to have drafted a document that meets the needs
of current and future technology, without applying a very liberal
and subjective interpretation of the intent.

Shoot! St. John the Divine had it all down cold by the end of the
first century, and he had considerably fewer technological props to
his vision than the Founding Fathers. It doesn't take any more than
an astute observer of Totalitarianism. Both St. John and the
Constitutional Convention referred to Rome for the ultimate exercise
of power and decadence. Whatever abuses modern despots can imagine
was done in Rome ages ago, and any recent embellishments are mere
technological refinements. These are certainly covered by common law,
which comes down to us from then.

Common law is a living document and will always trail a step behind
new technology.

Understand I am not an advocate of oppressive surveillance performed
without restraint, but that said I am also not convinced we can avoid
it.
--
Don

The NART Pilgrimage 2009
http://www.actualriders.ca/nartPilgrimage.htm

2004 Road King
2000 Yamaha Venture MM Edition
.

Relevant Pages

  • Security Chips in Cards Carry Risks
    ... "The industry is trying to sell RFID as the hammer and every problem ... The chip is found in wallet-sized cards and tags attached to products ... The technology ... such as the Gun Owners of California and the American Civil Liberties ...
    (sci.electronics.design)
  • Re: G Monbiot on microchip implantation
    ... that as you have said the forward march of technology mean that the government will be able to increase the capacity for abuse constntly, the second is that we have no idea what a futre gov may try to acheive with this. ... volunteer will contain radio frequency identification chips. ... allow the authorities to read the cards with a scanner. ... "Already we have become used to the police filming demonstrations for ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
  • Re: USB 3.0 ?
    ... SATA still has problems, e.g. ... sata technology is huge and offers the ... I am not talking about video cards here. ...
    (comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc)
  • Re: Power Of The Day -- Returning Soon
    ... of the player as well as the level it affects the game. ... Virus (a Red, Expert level power in the new game, but you rate as ... I'm surprised they didn't make up a power based on technology. ... again and can still gain more technology cards by normal means. ...
    (rec.games.board.ce)
  • Re: G Monbiot on microchip implantation
    ... (£85 and falling fast), safe and stable. ... Technology itself doesn't have an opinion nor is it inherently evil - ... need RFID or ID cards, so all this `brain implant` or even ID card ...
    (uk.politics.misc)
Loading